The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

When I have a few minutes, I'll email a side by side comparison of the repro P&H and an original P&H for your comparison.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Here's a side by side comparison between a JRA Potts & Hunt (top) and an original (bottom). Hope this is helpful.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Mr. Roberts: Nice job! Did you take the flame grooves off of the original hammer? I couldn't tell from the picture.

This points out another strike against the Euro Arms repro. The original hammers will not fit. I have one and have been unable to find a plain hammer that will fit.

Here is a pic of a P&H bar on band lock with the engraved lines.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

CJ:
Wow, that is a pretty nice original Potts & Hunt! JRA borrowed a lock assy in my collection for their LACo 1861. I saw one of their repros at Mill Springs (at Regtqm) and the markings were slightly higher on the lock plate than on my original lock plate. Not sure how that happened. The JRA Potts & Hunt is very decent, though. Did JRA blue vs case color the lock plate or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Jim:
Barnett was the Eli Whitney of the British gun trade. Yes, there were variations in their lock plate lettering. Barnett is the gunmaker that ocassionally put "TOWER" under the crown behind the hammer. The "Barnett Gunmaker" stock stamp is cool looking, too.You are also right about the EoA Enfield, there is only so much you can do with that one. And they weigh a ton. Original hammers may or may not work well. Mostly not. The problem is they often don't quite reach the cone on the repro.

I was in the middle of doing my most recent acquisition (a mint mid-70s Parker-Hale P-53) as a LACo 1861, and planned to use that original lock of mine in it, which fits in there like a glove. In fact, I had been saving that LAC lock for just that purpose, hoping one day to find a worthy P-H to put it in. Decided against it after seeing Todd Watts new "E Bond" Birmingham. Zing went the strings to my heart.

[MassVOL]

Enfield Combination Tool

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Peter Dyson Ltd, and Blockade Runner Enfield Combination tool to an original?

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Jim: Fortunately I was able to find an original unengraved hammer. It's probably odd logic, but I purchased a London maker reproduction because it matched the hammer I already had, as opposed to buying the gun first and then trying to find a hammer. I took a gamble that it would fit. I got very lucky. BTW, the JRA came with a standard Armisport engraved hammer even though the lock was not engraved. I'm not sure why JRA is not taking the time to at least grind the engraving off the hammers so that they match the London lock plates.

Craig: I can see how you would think the lock plate is blued. It isn't, but the colors in the case hardening are very weak, almost a solid gray. I think this is something that I would like to have redone at some point.

My biggest frustration with this piece and all the Armisport Enfields is the shape of the bolster. My frustration is particularly compounded by the fact that the bolster on my Euroarms Enfield looks much better, in spite of the thicker and heavier barrel. I haven't figured out how to fix this yet. I welcome any one else's thoughts on the subject.

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Seek out this man:

Tim Prince
Member CWDCA (The Civil War Dealers & Collectors Association)

at

collegehillarsenal.com

Regards,
Paul Hadley

[BrianHicks]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Peter Dyson Ltd, and Blockade Runner Enfield Combination tool to an original?

The Blockaderunner tool, compares extremely well to an original. Now... if they'd do the same for Sgts. tool.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Good news. Regt Quartermaster has an Enf Sgt's tool for $39, the one with the mainspring vice on the post, and it is a good quality tool with a deep blue/black finish. It functions well except the worm is incorrect (they said they will switch it out). I bought one at Mill Springs to evaluate for a future article, and used it to completely tear down an Enfield when I got back from the event. That one is coming with me to events.

I have the Blockade Runner Enf Pvt tool as well. The metal (mild steel) is not quite hard enough to for the intended purpose of tearing down the rifle-musket, the screw driver blade bends under the requisite pressure to remove some of the screws, but the other parts function well enough like the worm and cone wrench. I am not familiar with the Peter Dyson, Ltd version.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

This was a point of discussion with Mark Hartman (JRA) a few years back so I am pleased that he is now case coloring the lock plates. As you state the plain lock should accompany an unadourned (as Geoff Walden put it) hammer. I had a Potts & Hunt they did for me and the hammer was plain. I have to assume this detail slipped by. A Colt Special Model hammer makes a good hammer for a Potts & Hunt because they were business partners of sorts. It will fit.

If you are talking about the "snail" you can carefully re-shape that part of the bolster with a moto-dremel tool. The problems with the Armi Sport bolster do not end with the cosmetics.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Anyone know what kind of steel is on the BR tool? I'm wondering if it couldn't be heat-treated and hardened?

Paul

[BrianHicks]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I've been using one of Tim Princes Repros (which were made in partnership with the Blockaderunner) for about four years now. I've never encountered the issues that Barry described above.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Try using the screw driver blade to remove a stubborn screw and see what happens. Although Brian has a point in that I have bent and broken the blade on other (modern) screw drivers in removing stubborn screws. This happens when you work on old guns sometimes. It could be the nature of how I have used the tool. Your experiences may vary and Brian reports no problems. I would still say the Regt QM Enf Sgt tool is the better made of the two.

I do know this...The Tim Prince/BR Enf Pvt tool is made in India. I am going to assume that the metal used has the same properties as the low carbon (mild) steel they use in the repro bayonets that we all treasure so much. If you heat treated the tool (which is a very good idea) that would add carbon which should harden the metal, I don't see why that wouldn't work. We do it on the soft repro Italian gun parts all the time. Let me hasten to add I am no metallurgist, but I like that idea. The BR tool looks very accurate to the original, and if it were made more functional it would be a winner. I use mine for a cone wrench, vent pick, etc... just not the screw driver appendage.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Good news. Regt Quartermaster has an Enf Sgt's tool for $39, the one with the mainspring vice on the post, and it is a good quality tool with a deep blue/black finish. It functions well except the worm is incorrect (they said they will switch it out). I bought one at Mill Springs to evaluate for a future article, and used it to completely tear down an Enfield when I got back from the event. That one is coming with me to events.

I could not find the above described item on their website.

Which model or version do they have?

Does it look like this one?

[BrianHicks]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I have, and had no problems with it. Perhaps the original run of those tools were a better quality?

The Sgts tool I posted above, is an original I am fortunate enough to have acquired. It is a Model No. 4 which began being manufactured in 1859 and was replaced by the No. 5 which began being produced in 1861. The difference between the No. 4 and No. 5, is the length of the main shaft.