The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I've had one of the Blockade Runner Y-shaped Enfields tools for about three years now... and have noted exactly the same thing that Mr. Lehmann did. As it came in the mail, the screwdriver thing didn't fit any screw on my ArmiSport Enfield, nor my pard's EuroArms, nor my other pard's original Enfields. The edge of the blade was simply cast too wide, and required a bit of work with a bastard file to thin it down enough to engage the screw slots.

The wiper was sized just enough to slide snugly down the bore, but will not fit wit a cloth patch of any size.

The cone wrench did work.

Don't try to keep your armor oil in the little bottle, unless you want to add a little extra water-proofing to certain spots of your clothing.

Beyond that, it did look cool as all heck... I just need to carry a separate wiper and cone pick in addition to the "issue" tool.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I've had one of the Blockade Runner Y-shaped Enfields tools for about three years now... and have noted exactly the same thing that Mr. Lehmann did. As it came in the mail, the screwdriver thing didn't fit any screw on my ArmiSport Enfield, nor my pard's EuroArms, nor my other pard's original Enfields. The edge of the blade was simply cast too wide, and required a bit of work with a bastard file to thin it down enough to engage the screw slots.

The wiper was sized just enough to slide snugly down the bore, but will not fit wit a cloth patch of any size.

The cone wrench did work.

Don't try to keep your armor oil in the little bottle, unless you want to add a little extra water-proofing to certain spots of your clothing.

Beyond that, it did look cool as all heck... I just need to carry a separate wiper and cone pick in addition to the "issue" tool.

I don't mind doing a little re-work to get the tool to work properly such as sculpting the screwdriver blades....but, I would have a problem carrying such a non-functional item (if the oil resevoir leaks, the wiper's too big...)

Any recommendations for a tool, whose resevoir seals properly and has a functional wiper?

Paul

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Hallo!

The first "Y" combination tool was the Parker-Hale Pattern No. 1 Sergeant's Wrench (Combination Tool), which IMHO was no up to the standards of the Parker-Hale "Enfield' line.
IMHO, it was costume jewelry and not intended to be functional- just decorative.

Historically, the Pattern No 1 Privates', and Pattern Number 1 Sergeants' Wrench were roughly 1855-1858. (This gets messy as the Pattern dates seem to overlap as there was no apparent Pattern No. 2 and the Pattern No. 3's ("T" tool with dismounting arm) also came out in 1855.

Someone, I forget, made a semi-decent Pattern No. 1 Privates' tool (I recall) about ten plus years ago or so. But it was color case hardened, which could be stripped and oil-quenched blackened and a leather "gasket" or "seal" made for the oil resevoir....

And yes, as shared, the "Y" tool I see sold now suffers from too narrow a screw driver blade and arm, as well as an undersized wiper.
(And yes, the Italian repro "Enfields" seem to suffer from too narrow a screw slot on their screws, particularly the lock plate screws... IMHO, it is better to widen the slot, than narrow the screwdriver blade).

Curt

[Rob]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I purchased one of the Y-shaped tools from Track of the Wolf. My advice? Don't bother.

It won't fit in the cartridge box's tool pouch, and my musket wrench, oil bottle, worm, and cone pick together don't weigh as much as this monstrosity does. Plus, the screw which secures the cone pick to the main body goes into the oil cavity, so, unless you want to take the trouble to seal the threads with JB Weld, you cannot carry oil in it. It now has a permanent place in my toolbox - at home.

[Cyclesmith]

Re: Musket Defarbing

Pards,

Does anybody have an opinion on who is best at defarbing a musket?

Does anybody know of anyone that could defarb it over the course of an event weekend?

I think like anything it is a matter of experience and preference. Personally I like Lodgewood Mfg... well known in defarbing and many people (even in this forum) have used them. Personally I use them because I live only 30 mins away (please note being a Midwesterner I measure distance in time...LOL) and that makes it even easier to deal with them because I can pick-up my orders when done and they frequent many of the local events here, which is nice. So if you can find a person that does quality defarbing close to you I highly recommend it... if not... bite the bullet and pay for shipping.

As far as time-line to do a defarbing project it depends on the level of defarbing you want to do. Without knowing the type of musket you have I am speaking generally, noting that most often people are defarbing Enfields. If your looking at doing a really basic defarb...aka stripping the blueing, replacing the bands and swivels, strip the finish etc… you can do that yourself with the purchase of a few parts and a couple of hours of work on the weekend. If your looking at a full defarb… replacing the lock, band, swivels, rear sight and screw escutcheons… recontour the stock… relocate the modern marks and replace with period stamps…etc. your talking a couple hundred bucks (assuming you already own the musket) and a lot of work that should only be done by a pro. Typically I expect to wait about a month. My last musket I ordered took longer because the musket had to be ordered and a fairly extensive defarbing just after that… in all took about 3 months to get it… but well worth it. It really all depends if they have what you need in stock, and how many other project their working on.

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Sorry I just read this about the Blockade Runner's Enfield worms. I noted the same thing, that they are too large. I pointed it out to Jerry and Phil there a few weeks ago and they were actually shocked. They've sold many of them but were not aware themselves how large the base is until I showed them on a musket off the rack. They do not have much need anymore to clean muskets since neither does much reenacting these days and the gear they do use is of their older stock. They just had had no reason to try the worms with patches in barrels so they were unaware of the issue. To make mine work, I chucked it into my lathe and shaved several thousands of an inch off the base and even off the prongs' outside diameter. However, this should not have to be done when you buy one meant to fit a .58". They are aware of the problem and are working with their supplier to resolve the size issue. In the meantime, I have noted that they have an exact replica worm available that they had copied and I bought 1 of those. It is precise and loose enough in the bore to allow a good sized patch with ease. They sell those so if you want to buy one of these tools, tell them to swap the worm with the narrower one copied from an original. If you have one of the larger ones, it is a stout piece and you can use it, but when sitting around camp one afternoon you need to take a file to it and just shave it all around. Don't get into a hurry and if it takes a couple of hours on Saturday and Sunday don't get too hot about it. It is easier to do when attached to your rammer. Believe me, I have done this to several in camp for other guys in the unit that bought the big ones. Figure it this way, it was probably similar to what soldiers back then had to do with some mis-sized parts of all sorts of gear issued to them. It can be explained to spectators in camp that way as well. Besides, it'll keep you from drinking too much that day!:D

[FlaYankee]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

I believe this is what Mass Vol. was talking about. This was found via Geoff Waldens article on Enfields and he listed this as someone who has P53 parts;

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/RIFLE__MUSKET_PARTS___ACCESSORIES.html

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/RIFLE__MUSKET_PARTS___ACCESSORIES.html

Kindest Regards;:)

[50th VA Corporal]

Todd Watts Defarbed Enfield

For any of those AC members who have not had the opportunity to appreciate one of AC member Todd Watts' defarbed Enfields I can attest first hand his quality of work. I ordered my Armi Sport defarbed Enfield through Blockade Runner (BRI).

I had questions about the defarb and emailed Todd through the private message forum and he was quick with response and answered any and all of my questions and concerns. BRI informed me that from time of order placement to time of delivery was four weeks, but I received my defarbed Enfield in two weeks.

Todd did a special upgrade to my Enfield. Instead of the normal BSAT (British Small Arms Trade) stamp on the stock he used a new E. Bond stamp as the maker - so I got something a bit different than his normal defarb.

Having it arriving so quickly I had an opportunity to participate in a living history for a group of teen school kids where I was giving a session on the musket in particular - and it was, for the first time, I had the opportunity to do that session with an authenticly correct Enfield reproduction rather than one of a lesser correct reproduction.

Thanks Todd for the great work! I heartily encourage others to experience your craftsmanship. I look forward to using it next re-enactment season.

James T. Lemon
50th VA Corporal

[Todd Watts]

Re: Todd Watts Defarbed Enfield

You are certainly welcome.:)

[FlaYankee]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Wow;:)
James could you post some pics of your EP Bond Enfield. I imagine it looks like this one;

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=16417&cat=261&page=1

Kindest Regards;

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

The one recently owned and sold by Mr. Prince at College Hill Arsenal is my "model" for the Bond gun I do. I am doing another one right now for Mr. Barry. I copied my stamp from the one in the Prince collection while I was doing all-night security at a militaria show where he had "foolishly" left his collection in my tender loving care.:D Lots of measurements, digital pics and pencil rubbings.

[stannie1950]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

So after all of this discussion as to whether enfields were blued or not, has there been a final consensus? Perhaps some during the war were blued and others were stripped due to unit commanders, etc? Just an idea.

David Green

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

So after all of this discussion as to whether enfields were blued or not, has there been a final consensus? Perhaps some during the war were blued and others were stripped due to unit commanders, etc?

To be brief and overly simplistic in answering all of the above: Yes :tounge_sm

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Yup.;) They were made blued, but after issue who knows. I tend to think they remained blued mostly but that old mercuric bluing wore off rapidly from sweaty hands, abrassion on the ground or tree bark or grime-encrusted wool, and from cleaning with scouring action. Wearing away rust bluing turns a light shade of brown and then goes gray. Some commanders evidently did tell the men to strip the bluing to make them match the bright guns, but that would have been for an individual officer to decide. And, when stripping the bluing this would have been a half/arsed job. These guns being sold with hammers, barrel bands, screw heads, and sights all 100% polished bright are probably more farbby than the "Euroarms" that is stamped on the barrel. The soldier simply would not have been able to perfectly polish the many nooks and crannies around the hammer neck ot the rear or front sight, nor would he have cared enough to polish the heads of the screws.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

On July 2 or 3, 1863, Pvt. John Fallin of the 23rd Virginia Infantry lost or discarded his rifle during the fighting on Culp’s Hill, near the sleepy little town of Gettysburg, Pa. More than 140 years later, his Enfield rifle-musket, a veteran of the battle, plays a key role in remembering one of the most important battles in American history. American Rifleman

I highly recommend this article on Pvt. Fallin's Enfield Rifle. This appeared in the American Rifleman, the NRAs National Publication.

The rifle is now in the possession of the Gettysburg NPS Museum Collection. Interesting to note, that after seeing service, and being tossed on the battlefield, it has retained most of its original blueing.

Link to article: http://23rdva.netfirms.com/J%20A%20F...in%20rifle.htm


Paul