Cleaning My Weapon

[JimConley]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

The Confederate ORDINANCE MANUAL 1863,

"In the inspection of arms, officers should attend to the qualities essential to service, rather than a bright polish on the exterior of the arms."

Mark,
I think that Bill addressed the idea accurately, despite regulations:

Sometimes, I think we over analyze things. The answer to this question is actually pretty simple, how bright does our sergeant want our weapons to be? What I'm saying is the answer changes from time to time and from unit to unit.

So many things vary from unit to unit, theatre to theatre, campaign to campaign, etc. When a unit may have been in camp or placed somewhere for a period or length of time, the attention to regulations might well have changed as per the expectations of field command.

I've read Sam Watkins a number of times. The one instance where he mentions inspection in some form of detail says this:
"It was the same drudge, drudge day by day. Occasionally a Sunday would come; but when it did come, there came an inspection of arms, knapsacks and cartridge boxes. Every soldier had to have his gun rubbed up as a new silver dollar."
From: Watkins, Sam. Co. Aytch: A Confederate Memoir of the Civil War. (New York: Touchstone, 1997), p. 93.

Granted, that is only one account of the issue, but I believe the main premise is variability in practices.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

Hallo!

Yes...
In the end, the ONLY universal is that there are no universals.
;)

Curt
Heretic

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

On the condition thing, please view the attached photographs. The first shows a contract US M1861 rifle musket on display at SA NHS. The weapon shows clear signs of firing and other use and handling. The appearance of the metal could be called “clean” but is clearly a dull gray, rather than “bright”. I would not classify this as a “relic” piece as the overall condition is quite good, as can be seen in the photo (there is no “burnout” behind the cone, wearing down of edges or contour on wood or metal, bright edges, etc.). Could this be a good example of what a “’61 Springfield” looked like “in use”? I have no idea, but it is a ’61 that “was used”.



Compare this to a similar piece (not in the “organ of muskets” display) on display at SA NHS that I believe is either unused, or was used very minimally in its day. Note the differences in the finish (“shine”) on the metal. The cone is still blue and edges are sharp and unmarred on both metal and wood. This being said, you can see a dark “ring” around the cleanout screw and some abrasion on the lockplate. The abrasion appears light… could this be from use, an old cleaning, machining of the plate during manufacture, or polishing after the plate was case hardened? …who knows!? However, you can clearly see that, in comparison to this piece, the first has clearly lost the “sheen” it had when “new”.

The third picture shows a detail from the “Organ…” display. I wanted to show that the muskets on the display were not re-re-re-reburnished. Corners and edges on both wood and metal are sharp and crisp. In most cases the rear sights are still black. Although I didn’t capture it in one of the photos here, a detail I noticed today in one of the pictures that I have from the display the difference between the finish on barrel bands and barrels. The bands on the muskets in the display are almost “nickel bright” and shiny, while barrels, though “shiny”, appear to have more of a satin finish.



While Bill is quite right in his post that the bright finish on this muskets must be maintained (aka – the muskets on display must be cleaned and maintained to look this way), there is also truth in Curt’s post in that, when a number of pieces are all in like condition, one can infer that they’ve all been treated in a very similar way over their lifetime. While it is not possible (for me anyway) to verify the history of use or non-use of the arms in the “Pipe Organ” display, the are all clearly in “like condition” and have seen minimal use, if any. Also, despite the fact that they have been maintained by the Springfield Armory, then by SA NHS (this maintenance to include cleaning, etc. to maintain the appearance of the pieces), their appearance is as close an approximation of the appearance of original arms “as manufactured” as I have encountered. Others may exist, and probably do, I just haven’t seen them.

I hope this information is helpful and clarifies some of my earlier posts.

Thanks!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

Hallo!

Thanks for the images (I LOVE images!!!).

Yes, sadly, I am thinking of some of the peices in the National Civil War museum in Harrisburg, PA suffering from the same mirror bright ultra-polishing effects of "buffing wheels and buffing compound." Either they from the same "source," or bear the
hand(s) of museum staff persons..
Sigh..

Oh. Barrels are a harder iron/steel than that used for other parts. Plus the burnishing process on barrels hardens the outer "skin" surface causing it to reflect light differently (shine/sheen) versus how other parts are polished, etc.

Curt

(And yes, IMHO it helps immensely when one has the very good fortune to have the chance to examine numbers of mint and otherwise excellent unused arms, from a variety of sources and collections, that appear to bear no signs of aggressive or abusive "cleaning."
Many times, even most times though, we see only the relic, used and patined, and the "cleaned" pieces.)

Curt

[65thgainf]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

Guess, I need to take a trip up to Chickamauga and visit with our friend Lee White. Someone donated an entire gun collection many years ago and I think it is still on display. Don't know about the provenance of the weapons though.

Great pics, maybe the camera flash made some appear more bright ?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How Bright Should "Bright Work" Be On A Rifle

Hallo!

That is the Claude Fuller Collection of about 350 guns (including the prototype M1861 Springfield round cartouche box).

Much Eye Candy! And a fine Learning Experience!!

Curt

[BrianHicks]

Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

In another thread, the problem of extracting a rammer which is stuck in a barrel came up. While extracting the rammer is a challenge, it brought to mind the question of "Why are rammers getting stuck in the barrel to begin with'. While considering this, I came up with the following:

It is unfortunate how often I have seen individuals whom somehow get their ramrods stuck in the barrel. Now.. not meaning to disperage any of those folks to whom this has happened, but it most often seems to occur due to some slight error in the way in which the weapon is cleaned.

My observations have been that this problem has most often occurred due to one of two reasons (ands sometimes from a combination of both).

LIKELY CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM:

1. Failing to remove the cone before putting a patch (or any other cleaning implement) down the barrel.

-If you remove the cone before putting a patch down the barrel, you're allowing for the air between your patch (as it is being pushed down) and the bottom of the barrel to be pushed out where the cone had been. If this isn't done, sometimes the carbon will seal the fire hole in the cone (especially after water has been in and out of the barrel, which results in gummy wet carbon) which can create a vacuum if the patch fits tight in the barrel as your pushing it in, which, when that patch gets wrapped around the bulb end of the ramrod, can result in the ram rod being stuck in the barrel.

2. Rapping the patch around the bulb end of a Springfield ramrod, or threading it through the tool slot which is in the bulb end of the Enfield ramrod as means of introducing the patch into the barrel.

Rapping the patch around the bulb end of the rammer, or threading it through the tool slot of the Enfield rammer will often make the fit too darn tight, which causes the ram rod to get stuck in the barrel.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

The better way of punching the bore, is to first remove the cone, then simply stuff the patch into the top end of the barrel, and with the worm (Each man should have been issued a worm with his weapon, you know....the little corkscrew looking attachment) threaded onto the end of the ram rod, push the patch down to the bottom of the barrel, give the ram rod a twist so that the worm gets hold of the patch, and then you pull it back out.

Using these recommended methods will greatly reduce the likelihood of a ram rod getting stuck in the barrel.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Hallo!

Just in my 17 years live-fire experience in the N-SSA, I found that stuck patches were the result of:

1. Too dry a patch getting hung up on the area of the bore where the black powder fouling tends to concentrate based upon the blast effect of the breech end of the barrel.

2. Too large a patch for the tolerance or gap between a modern cleaning "jag" and the land-to-land measurement of the bore.

The other side of the equation is a lost patch caused by undersized jags, too small or too thin of cleaning patches, or use the Springfield "tulip" ramrod head or the Enfield tool slot head as a jag. (Yes, I know the reference to using the slot for cleaning....)

IMHO, if we stuck closer to the CW period method of cleaning such as using the issue wiper and plenty of water, most of the stuck patches and stuck modern cleaning jags would largely go away... (even when we shoot blanks which are messier) ;-) :-) :-)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Water being the key ingredient there.

[Clsinclair]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Brian,

You covered it all. I have used the worm from day one and I have never gotten a rammer stuck. I use an Enfield Tool which has a worm attached.

Regards,

[paulcalloway]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Regarding removal - take a cloth canteen strap, wrap it around the tulip-end of the ramrod two or three times and pull on the strap.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

(John wipes egg from face)
I was guilty of one or more of the issues described by Messr Hicks at the recent Vicksburg event. It cost me my rammer. :(

One thing I am curious about...
The recent trend toward cleaning muskets "in the field." At an event firing blanks, you only need an open air way from the cone to the powder charge. As a 16 year-old powder-burnin' devil in my mainstream days, I never fouled a barrel so severely that I needed to clean it in the field. Today, at an event where I may go through 2-20 rounds in a weekend, I just don't see the need.

My personal preference is to clean my muskets at home under more controlled conditions.

Curious others' thoughts on this.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Curious others' thoughts on this.

John,

Other than the obvious safety issue with FOD in the barrel, at some events a second NPS safety inspection occurs Sunday morning, so the magic wand of cleanliness needs to hit the musket once again. This isn't true for all events.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Hallo!

"My personal preference is to clean my muskets at home under more controlled conditions. Curious others' thoughts on this."

Herr John..

I do the same, except when an inspection is part of the schedule.

IMHO, I believe that "cleaning in the field" is a result of three things:

1. The Modern Obsession we have taught about the evils of black power dissolving our guns by the minute when left uncleaned, and the modern military view of scouring the last molecule of graphite from our bores.

2. "Cleaning" makes for a useful "living history" "firper" or "thirper" activity to fill the down-time and empty after "The Battle" in a way a Civil War soldier could have done were he not bogged down with other scheduled soldierly duties and fatique details.

3. The shooter is new and does not know that if he "takes a hit" on the very first enemy volley, his gun does not get dirty.

;) :) :) :D

Curt
Just A-Funnin' Mess

[BrianHicks]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Another problem with reproduction items with our weapons (Herr Schmidt has already described the problem with repro cleaning jags) is the reproduction two piece ram rods. Once one of them gets stuck (for what ever reason) no matter what you use to extract it (other than the NPS used CO2 cartridge which will blow it out of the barrel) there is a real chance that you may seperate the top end three inches from the rest of the ram rod.

As for cleaning weapons in the field? It was done historically by the soldiers on what was probably a daily basis so, (other than the safety and inspection considerations), shouldn't that be reason enough?

Now.... for the detailed, take all the pieces parts off the weapon type cleaning... yeah... wait until you get home, but for field cleaning, it should be done (I feel) at a minimum, each evening.