Cleaning My Weapon

[toptimlrd]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Brian,

I too field clean at every event and do a complete teardown when I get home. I had the unfortunate happen to me recently with a bore brush as I was giving the old girl her going into storage for a few months cleaning. What I finally did was pour some sweet oil down the barrel and let it get around the brush. Then using a variation of the canteen strap method gave it a few tugs and once it moved she slid right on out. I was just surprised that a bore brush could get stuck that easily in a musket that was already fairly clean (had already flushed all the fouling out o the barrel was just getting the rifling clean). Of course after all that oil going down I had to go through and clean it again to get as much out as possible, I also blew quite a few caps before loading it again but she fired on the first cap after loading.

I've seen them need the help of a trained gunsmith before too though where the only option was pull the breech plug and finish sending it through. One thing I do not use is the round jag you wrap a patch around, seen too much bad ju ju with those things getting stuck. The wiper or a slotted jag is all I use for patches.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

About 30 grains of powder and my rammer was free. Sometimes you need a bit more "umph" than those CO2 (as a chemist I desparately want a subscript!) cartridges can deliver.

I think that Curt has it about right. Its a firper thang.

As one who has put a bit more effort into my muskets than the standard Italian defarb, I have a strong preference for the controlled conditions at home, but am willing to accommodate our friends at the NPS.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Since posting my original text in the first post in this thread, having considered information provided from others, I am becoming less convinced that an actual vacuum is created, and beginning to lean more towards the fact that the accumulated air pressure between the patch and the clogged cone which will inhibit the ability to push the ram rod down efficiently which causes a loss of momentum, which; along with the accumulating burnt powder residue, the tightness of the patch pinched in the space between the interior of the barrel and jag or whatever other item you wrapped your patch around, all contribute to causing the ram rod to become stuck in the barrel.

I think this is more probable, than attributing it to a 'vacuum' being created.

[rebelyell62]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

A patch of what? Grass mebe?Never heard of sech.
I am resorted ta usin' flax tow ta wipe my musket

Wendell Brown

Let's make the attempt to use proper English on the Forum. I'll help:
"What sort of a patch? Grass Perhaps? I have not heard of such a thing.
I have resorted to using tow to clean my musket."

Justin Runyon

[BrianHicks]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

As I understand it, the cleaning Jag that began to be issued in 1861 (or was it '62) did not have a semi-conical shaped solid end. The previous versoin did, and had such so as to allow for tolerance of the patch as the jag with patch wrapped around it, was pushed into and pulled from the barrel.

The new Jag was not intended to be used with a patch, but to be used with Flax Tow as a cleaning agent.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Let's take a moment to head back to those heady high school auto shop class days, and recall what happens when dry piston rings slip up and down that dry cylinder wall. While not precisely the same thing, lubrication is a big help in preventing the pistons from seizing, and the rammer from getting stuck, as a previous poster mentioned.

To paraphrase an old horseman's saw, there are two kinds of reenactors -- those who have had their rammer stuck, and those who will have their rammer stuck. I keep meaning to buy one of those little CO2 round extractors from Cabela's (not an approved vendor), as a handy Kabuki tool. They push out live rounds and rammers rather well.

[Silas]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

The times I've had mine stuck were usually caused from one or two factors :

(1) Not taking the effort to give the barrel one more rinse of clean water ; and/or
(2) Trying to accomplish too crud much removal with on the first two patches.

Taking my time usually eliminates the problem. If there's sufficent water to give the barrel a third or fourth drink, down it goes. A light swabbing with those first two patches instead using gorrilla strength makes a world of difference. The time it takes to pour an extra gill of water and apply some extra patches is significantly less than the time it takes to remove a stuck rammer.

In the field, I ceased using the rammer in the normal manner by relying upon a long, stout string tied to patches then inserting same down the barrel using the screw end of the ramrod.

One time I got a fat wad of patch stuck in the bottom when some not stout string broke. I had tried to clean too much, too quickly. It was no big deal because removal of both was easy with minimal use of a worm. Haven't had to tie my musket to a tree and bash the ramrod out using vice grips and mallot this millenium. Like to keep it that way, too.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Hallo!

""From Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1861, for the Use of Soldiers (applies to the Springfield Models 1855, 1861, and 1863, and more generally to the Enfield Models 1853 and 1858), under "Rules for Cleaning":

It is not essential for the musket to be dismounted {disassembled} every time that it is cleaned; for, after firing it in fine weather, or when there has been no chance for the wet to get between the barrel and the stock, it can be perfectly cleaned in the following manner.

Put a piece of rag or soft leather on the top of the cone, and let the hammer down upon it; pour a gill of water into the muzzle carefully, so that it does not run down the outside; put a plug of wood into the muzzle, and shake the gun up and down, changing the water repeatedly until it comes out clear. When clear, withdraw the leather, and stand the musket on the muzzle for a few moments; then wipe out the barrel (as given in the second rule for cleaning {see below}), and also wipe the exterior of the lock and the outside of the barrel around the cone and cone-seat first with a damp rag, and then with a dry one, and lastly with a rag that has been slightly oiled. In this way, all the dirt due to the firing may be removed without taking out a screw.

2nd. Screw the wiper on to the end of the ramrod, and put a piece of dry cloth, or tow, round it, sufficient to keep it from chafing the grooves of the barrel; wipe the barrel quite dry, changing or drying the cloth two or three times.

3d. Put no oil into the vent, as it will clog the passage, and cause the first primer to miss fire; but, with a slightly oiled rag on the wiper, rub the bore of the barrel,... and immediately insert the tompion into the muzzle."

Even in a blank firing World, the first step of this procedure removes much of the built-up fouling and pours it out of the barrel so that the dry cloth or tow has less to snag on when held by the wiper in the second.

IMHO, sometimes avoiding the way things were done in the Past can often teach the WHY things were done. ;) :)

Curt

[ACo.]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

Hallo!


"IMHO, sometimes avoiding the way things were done in the Past can often teach the WHY things were done." ;) :)

Curt

Here, here!
:D

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Oil Bottle

OK...I tried a generic search on oil, but came up with nothing.

We have covered the topic of proper rifle/musket cleaning kits before; items which may be included in said kit are as follows:

Rifle/Musket Tool~may be wrench or other device designed for disassembly or the weapon,
Wiper~commonly reffered to as a worm, used to swab/extract patches/tow,
Ball Puller~used for the extraction of lead ball in barrel,
Cone Pick~used for cleaning out the cone,
Emery~fine granular abrasive used for polishing metal,
Patches/Tow~used for swabbing barrel and for the application of oil to the weapon.
Oil Container with Oil~used to store oil for the maintenance of the weapon.

My question; Has anyone seen an original oil container that can be documented to field use by soldiers during the ACW?

If so, was this seen if a book, website, museum, personal collection?

Provenance?

Thanks,

Paul

[MassVOL]

Re: Oil Bottle

I have seen zinc bottles with brass tops of English manufacture complete and several dug brass tops where the container had completely rotted away. They were small oil bottles with a stem affixed to the cap as an applicator. I have inspected some in a personal collection and there is a decent repro available from O’Dea Military (not an approved vendor). The British expense pouch even has a leather retaining loop in it for the oiler to go. As the English combination tools made there way over here and it stands to reason that the the oilers did to, but in number and quantity someone else will have to speak to.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Oil Bottle

You mean this repro...?

http://heritageleathercw.com/cart/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=341

Yes, it's not an approved vendor, but it is the only one I have found so far as a repro off of an existing original.

I called the guy that supplies these... he told me usually deals with British Colonial Wars (no AmCiv) and says this bottle is dead-on accurate to what the British were producing at this time. It is known as a P1860 Oil Bottle.

Hope it helps -Johnny

[Iron Scout]

Re: Oil Bottle

Folks,

Just for clarification, the English zinc oiler bottles/containers were imported in significant numbers per Huse's I&C invoices from the McRare Papers. Hebbert and Co (Pall Mall) also quoted "zinc oil bottles for expense pouch" in a pricing quote sheet to McRae himself on 10/24/64. If you're doing a CS impression, the oil bottle is a good choice. Check: www.britishmilitaryequipments.com

Neill Rose
PLHA

[MassVOL]

Re: Oil Bottle

The oiler that Heritage sells comes from O'Dea. He has a lot of great orignals in his collection and is an excellant guy to talk to on the subject. i ordered two oilers from him last year.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Notes On The Ram Rod Stuck In The Barrel Problem

RECOMMENDATIONS:

The better way of punching the bore, is to first remove the cone, then simply stuff the patch into the top end of the barrel, and with the worm (Each man should have been issued a worm with his weapon, you know....the little corkscrew looking attachment) threaded onto the end of the ram rod, push the patch down to the bottom of the barrel, give the ram rod a twist so that the worm gets hold of the patch, and then you pull it back out.

Using these recommended methods will greatly reduce the likelihood of a ram rod getting stuck in the barrel.

While cleaning a musket at home recently, I had the rammer catch in the bore. While it wasn't "stuck", it was harder to remove that it should have been. The culprit in this case was a patch that was cut too big (in other words, the length & width were too large). This cause the patch to "bunch up" while trying to remove the rammer.

This was in a bore that had already been flushed with hot water and swabbed with another (smaller) patch! So, it was not due to "gunk" in the bore because the bore was largely clean already and the cone had been removed.

Whatever the cause, I think Brian's advice (above) is sound and probably a "best practice" when cleaning in the field. Just thought I'd share that.