Cap Pouch authenticity question

[Rob]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

In looking over those images, I noticed that some pouches do not have the horizontal line of stitching coming through the back (where the sheepskin is sewn inside).

I thought it was glued.

[DaveGink]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

I thought it was glued.

If I am not mistaken, I believe it is generally both glued and also sewn along the top. But perhaps an expert can verify this?

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

My original Shield front is stitched.

Dave Myrick

[3alabama]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

I have 5 Federal an 2 confederate cap pouches (originals of course) and the wool was sewn in all of them. It is held in place by a straight line of stitching across the top.

[August77]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

I don't claim to be an expert, but here goes....

I must agree with Nick D. in that I don't want to get into degrading someone's work, but there are certain things I look for in repro leathers, among them are:

Stark white thread is an immediate turn off. It's like the people around my way that put the really nice rims (spinners) on their tri-colored spray painted, duck taped 94 Honda Civic, it just sticks out.

If you pick it up and your hands turn black, that usually means a modern aniline dye was used. Dye of the period worked because of a reaction between the contents of the dye and the tannin in the leather. For more info on that I would suggest reading David Jarnigans article in the Company of Military Historian Journal on Hemlock tanned leather (I don't have the issue handy right now, so I can't give you the number).

The color is also a factor for me. Feibings or other modern dyes tend to give off purplish (not sure if that's a word or not) streaks in certain light.

As far as the stitching across the back goes, I have attached a picture of a similar one. Most of the pouches I have seen produced like this have the wool whip stitched to the inner rain flap therefore the stitches do not come out the back.

Dave, I think the best thing you can do is ask the person who sold you the cap box if he has pictures of the original he copied and what materials he used to produce it. It's also a good idea to go to as many antique arms shows as you can. Usually at the good ones you will see more leather accoutrements than at most museums and they are usually laying on a table, not behind glass. The next time you go cap pouch shopping you will be amazed at the things you will be looking for.

I've seen some pretty sloppy federal cap pouches in my day, but generally they tend to be fairly consistent. The stitch count on the earlier ones tends to be about 8 and it seems like the stitching got tighter as time went on to about 10. Anything over that and you start perforating the leather. You see this in cartridge boxes as well. Open the implement pouch on a '61 pattern and the flap is sewn in with a very loose single needle stitch, maybe 2-3 to the inch. Now look in a '64 box, it has nice double need stitch 9-10 to the inch. I think one thing to keep in mind as far as size and quality goes is the fact that these things were produced under a lot different circumstances than today. Think about how many sets of accoutrements had to be produced. A contract for 10,000 sets in 2 months is a pretty tall order. I'm sure these shops didn't have many government regulations in place either, meaning long work days, child labor, etc., etc. Remember that leather dries out and shrinks over the years, and not at the same rate, which can also account for subtle differences in size and shape.

The second picture that is attached is part of my collection that shows various periods of cap pouches. This is of course my best determination. I am hesitant to label them with a pattern date as I would rather await the arrival of the book on this subject by Mr. Gaede.

Oh yeah, check out our new website at http://www.ejtmercantile.com. I am still adding products so please be patient.

Thanks!
Bill Lomas

[DaveGink]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

Wow, what happened to this thread? It looks like the posts from a cartridge box thread somehow got merged into it? And now it says the thread was started by "Thumper" instead of by me?

Also, a thread I started last night looking for period photos, or modern photos of existing Union Mechanical Hard tack boxes disappeared. My first thought was that the mods deleted it for some reason, but that didn't really make sense to me since I was asking about an authentic item. Is something wierd going on?

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

Dave,
the lost U-mech threat got moved and surgically re-attached to the rations thread (page 100 or so). I found it by chance a few minutes ago.

[DaveGink]

Re: Cap Pouch authenticity question

Ah, Thanks Chris!! They must be doing some house keeping. I thought maybe the site was getting buggy.

Cheers,
Dave