Battle Shirt

[Jeff_Hiseley]

I had a question about the so-called "Battle" or "Overshirts". Judging from early war photographs in all theaters, the shirts were quite common, and after the fall of Vicksburg the TMD was largely on their own, so I would assume there would be alot of home-spun, home-made overshirts in the '64-'65 years in the Trans-Mississippi theater as well. Am I correct in my assumptions?
How do you construct one? Can you just modify a regular civilian shirt pattern? What type of fabric? Jean? Flannel? What type of buttons? any help would be greatly appreciated.
-Jeff Hiseley

[tarwater_mess]

Re: Battleshirts

Thought this might help.

The Southern Banner [Athens, Ga.], August 6, 1862, p. 4, c. 7

Wanted!

1000 yards country Cotton Cloths, plain, striped and checked;
1000 yards Woolen Linsey for Overshirts;
500 yards " Jeans for Coats and Pants for all which the best market price will be paid in cash.
July 16. I. M. Kenney.

Dallas Herald, December 6, 1862, p. 2, c. 2
We have been shown a donation of 31 pairs worsted socks, 50 flannel overshirts, 2 undershirts, and 6 pair flannel drawers, for the soldiers, made by a lady and her two daughters, in Grimes county. The flannel was all of home manufacture, and the best article of the kind we have seen in many a long day. This donation is worth at least $75, probably $100.—Telegraph.
According to our calculations, the above articles would bring not less than $450.

[James Masson]

Re: Battleshirts

From the Florida State Archives:

http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/prints/pr01726.jpg

This is a picture of two Confederate soldiers from Florida. I came across this picture in some research I have been doing for a Florida Homeguard impression. Both soldiers appear to be wearing overshirts from a course, probably homespun, material. The soldier on the right appears to have a slit front type shirt instead of a placket front. This was a pre-war design that started to fade out around the 1840's or so. I don't know what type of buttons are on these shirts, but a good guess is either bone or agate glass (china) buttons. There is no trim on either shirt.

http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/prints/pr01678.jpg

This is another good example of an overshirt. This one is trimmed and the buttons look like they might be brass (it is hard to tell from this picture, this is only my guess).

http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/prints/pr01677.jpg

Yet another one of a Florida soldier. I believe this one is in the 1st Florida Infantry. The front piece of the placket is made out of a darker type of material. Again, the buttons appear to be brass, but that is just my best guess.

There is also the famous picture of the Mississippi cavalryman (1st Miss. Cav.?), in which he is wearing an overshirt. There is also the numerous pictures of soldiers in overshirts. There is an article on the Lone Jack Mess website (I think) that gives a good analysis on overshirts, as well as many pictures.

Any heavier material would work fine. Linsey Woolsey, wool jean, cotton jean, wool flannel, cotton cassimere, satinette, denim, wool. I thik there are a few picture of soldiers wearing overshirts made out a shirting type material. Trim, no trim, it's really your choice. Hope this helps you out.

James Masson

[srmitchell]

Re: Battleshirts

Jeff,
Here are two sites with material on the Trans.-Miss. theatre, and thier respective contact information is on both sites. The overshirts that I've seen produced for guys doing LH's at Mansfield have been made from Family Heirloom's undyed cotton jeans, from Child's Holladay shirt pattern. It's the same material that was produced by the penitentiary for the soldiers in this region. Any of the guys in either of these units will know much more than I however, so I'll direct you here;
15th TX Inf.:

http://www.geocities.com/Texasgroundhornets/

and the Lazy Jacks Mess:

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/

They will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
Hope this helps,

[markj]

Re: Battleshirts

Greetings,

Take a look at this image currently on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2211930268&category=13960

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[DougCooper]

Re: Battleshirts

Give Don Smith a call on the TMD battleshirts - best to call the Mansfield State Historic Site at 318 872-1474 where Don works as a ranger. Of note there is a photo of 5 members of the 21st MS (ANV) with their flag in the Courthouse Musuem in Jackson, MS all dressed in identical light colored untrimmed overshirts. We were pretty excited till we found out the photo was taken in Aug of 65 and was a commemorative veterans deal for them...but it does point to the popularity of the garment and the thought that it is at least thought of as being martial in appearance. Thousands of the so-called Monroe Depot overshirts were produced and as late as 1864 according to research by Fred Adolphus and Don Smith, and others. No surviving example exists (that we know of) so we are just going off of a description, just as we are on the undyed cotton jean and kersey jackets produced by Houston Depot and it's satelites.

[privstull]

Re: Battleshirts

when my unit did a bulk buy of battle shirts, we bought the material from ben tart. just ask ben what would be the best for whatever theater you would want it in. He also would probably carry the buttons. For patterns, I would contact Charlie Childs and ask him if he had one or could make up one for you. hope this helps. merry christmas to all!

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Battleshirts

Guys,

I know there are no extant TMD originals to work from, but there is a fair amount of undocumentable guesswork going on in this thread. I'm not bashing you. I would simply caution towards a little more scholarship and research before jumping to some of these assumptions.

As Mark Mason showed with his post, there is information out there. Sometimes, it can be as thin as a single reference to material, (linsey-woolsey in this case) but at least that's a starting point.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Battleshirts

I'd suggest an email to Pat Brown (fortyrounds@juno.com) as he's done a battleshirt Bully Buy in the past, and usually patterns his uniforms from extant originals.

[Jeff_Hiseley]

Re: Battleshirts

Thanks,
and I'll heed your warning and keep the guesswork to a minimum. The reason I was asking was because I wasn't sure if the battleshirt popularity was strictly an early war phenomena that curbed as the war progressed (because a majority of "battleshirt" photographs I've seen were taken in '61-'62), or if it remained a staple in the TMD for the duration of the war due to logistical reasons, and I haven't been able to find many mid-late war TMD images.
I was inquiring particularly for the Mansfield march. I've been wanting to construct a battleshirt for a while and took this as a great opportunity since it is one of the requirements. I'm wanting to do an authentic specific shirt, and found a gorgeous example in an old Confederate Calendar from '97. The picture was taken in the sring of '62 around Waco and it's of Pvt. Edwin Erath of the 15th Texas. I havn't been able to locate any fabric matching the material his overshirt is made of (his was probably home-spun anyway), the closest i've found is a rust/brown tiger stripe cotton jean from Family Heirloom, but it doesn't have the uniformity of the vertical stripes like the original fabric. It kind of looks like more of a Linsey Woolsy to me anyway, but it's hard to tell. I didn't know if one fabric was more common than others or if there was quite a variety. You can't see the buttons, as he has his sleeves rolled up, and he has a V-neck opening w/o a placket. So I was just going to take an educated guess >: ( on the cuff buttons.
Thanks guys! For Mansfield/Pleasant Hill, -Jeff Hiseley

[Dingus]

Re: Battleshirts

Here's another photo of a battleshirt, or guerrilla shirt as they came to be known in Missouri. They were frequently homespun of linsey-woolsey.

http://www.islandnet.com/~the-gang/jesse2.jpg

p.s. I'm currently on a quest to find 10 yards of linsey-woolsey, if anyone encouters a current source.

[K Bartsch]

Re: Battleshirts

James,
Charlie Childs makes and sells the linsey you seek. Three colors. Very nice stuff.

http://www.crchilds.com/id44.htm

Cordially,
K. Bartsch

[JustRob]

Overshirts and rank

Has anyone seen documentation for wearing rank insignia on the sleeves of overshirts?

A unit with which I fall in from time to time wears overshirts on the field and their NCO's are having difficulty being identified. This isn't so much a problem within the group, but it does become an issue when falling in with others.

Would the situation change if the overshirt was sometimes worn under a jacket? I know the overshirt is typically worn in place of a jacket, but this is a situation where everyone would be wearing a distinctive regimental Garibaldi shirt that sometimes doubled as an overshirt.

If there is some documentation for the rank insignia, would it be done with regular chevrons or simply wool tape?

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Overshirts and rank

I have HEARD (I cannot back this up so take it with a grain of salt!) That when the 1stMN Inf was first formed, that the enlisted ranks wore red shirts, NCOs Gray and the officers Blue. Other than that piece of campfire talk, I have not seen a photo of NCO stripes on an overshirt. What unit are you portraying?

[JimConley]

Re: Overshirts and rank

Robert,
That would be very interesting to note if that could be backed up somehow. Anyone? The proposed possible remedy to the post seems logical...it makes sense.