Confederate Sharpshooters

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sniper sights on rifle muskets

Hallo Kamerad!

"Someone I know from my first unit, a "farb" unit, has..."

To be polite, shouldn't your question end there? ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Secede1863]

Re: Sniper sights on rifle muskets

AH!

Sorry, I get it now.

If you read my before edited post I didnt know what you meant. Well, yes it should. But he says he can back it up. Can He?

Your Pard

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sniper sights on rifle muskets

Hallo Kamerad!

"But he says he can back it up. Can He?"

In general and in particular, in two decades, man and boy in this "hobby-" I have never met an individual who did NOT claim he had "the documentation,"
had "done the research," had "the period evidence, accounts, descriptions, image, and/or artifacts to back their claim.

I obviously do not know this individual, and would not want or care to paint him with the broad brush of past personal experience on my part that might just have been skewed toward the 100% negative.... but

We should be glad to post and share the fruits of his labors here on the AC Forum, so that, in the sharing, we may all learn something and further our collective CW knowledge.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sniper sights on rifle muskets

Hallo Kameraden!

This is a test of my woefully inadequate PC skills:

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Firearms_Ammo/US_Stadia/us_stadia.html

If someone knows the spell to have the images appear here, please pitch in.
Danke!

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Luddite Mess

[bcatgrappler]

Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

this may be a stupid question, but I am royally confused, Were the green sharpshooters "dress" uniforms for any field use whatsoever, or did they wear regulation fed fatigue dress out in the field?

Thanks,

Mike Ray
Ruff n' Readys

[Michigander]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

this may be a stupid question, but I am royally confused, Were the green sharpshooters "dress" uniforms for any field use whatsoever, or did they wear regulation fed fatigue dress out in the field?

Thanks,

Mike Ray
Ruff n' Readys

Mike;
:)
These boys were not known as "greencoats" for no reason. From my research both regiments of USSS generaly wore their green frock coats with either green pants, or standard issue federal blue trousers. At times they were issued blue sack coats, and many photos show these troops wearing both. That being said in general the USSS wore their green frocks. Remember these guys considered themselves "elite" troops, and the green frocks were a symbol of their status as well as a usefull means of camoflage. They were considered the best skirmishers in the army, and their skill, esprit, and ability to use available cover and camoflage all contributed to this reputation. Hope this helps.

Richard Jones
Yucaipa, CA

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

Hallo Kameraden!

Jah und nein!

As with any unit, this conversation is very "time and place" specific!

The popular image and "hobby version" of Berdan Sharpshooters tends to be fixated on their Peninsula Campaign era (July 1862) appearance with the "classic" green cap with short ostrich plume, green dress coat, sky blue trousers, "Prussian" knapsack and mess kit, and leather leggings. Or, their late 1862/early 1863 appearance with green trousers.

To be too brief:

Research into period documents such as Quartermaster reports, diaries, and journals shows a different "look."

1. As the initial unique 1861 items (Prussian knapasacks, mess kits, wore out, or were lost in combat, they were not replaced. (Replacements and "future" issuances being standard infantry issue.)

2. The green dress coats were turned in for the "summer campaign" season and blue infantry blouses (along with sky blue trousers) issued as early as 1862 (with the coats reissued in the Fall).

3. Even when "green" was supposed to be issued, shortages sometimes made "blue" the issuance- to the complaint of the men worried about a double "hit" to their clothing allowances.

4. At times, particularly in 1864, "green" clothing was in surplus and unissued at the arsenal/depot.

Again to be brief, with the possible exception, maybe, of some surviving green caps, the apperance of the Berdan's/Post's at Pitzer's Woods or Big Round Top at Gettysburg would have looked much more like Sharps rifle-armed Federal infantry than the "greencoated Berdans" always depicted in popular art and image.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Berdan Heretic Mess
Company "A," 1st USSS (LH)

(Yes, there are couple or three "hardcore/authentic" Berdans out there...)
;-)

[Marc]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

Must agree with Curt's and all comments. Our unit does quite a few living histories at Gettysburg NMP. We try and have the fellows in a multitude of Sharpshooter Uniforms even though the complete green sharpshooter was not at Gettysburg. The park does like to have us in the green frocks since that is what the public recognizes and opens the door for questions etc.

When we do the firing demo..I have usually 3 fellows stand in front of the crowd. One representing the Berdan sharpshooter of 1862, green frock, hair on knapsack, leggings etc and I tell the crowd this is the sharpshooter of 1862. then we go into details how the uniform would vary depending on supply and time of year etc and that is where the other 2 fellows come in, with double bag knapsack, blue sack coat, perhaps green pants etc.

Now at a time specific authentic event the correct uniform is a must.

Anyways, still trying to find out exactly when the Chancellorsville new issue took palce and what regiments received them.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

My mess, through a ton of research, managed to create what we think is a fair "matrix" of clothing issuances throughout the 1st and 2nd USSS's terms of service, including what the majority of men wore at precise moments in the war. Bill Skillman and I are still scouring our current sources and looking for more so we can complete this matrix and add to it throuout the years to come. It's always an on-going project.

Chancellorsville: Remember that the men were issued brand new, full suits of green in early 1863 for the inspection by Lincoln, and soon after that they recieved orders to march which turned out to be the Chancellorsville Campaign. So far we have accounts of men going into the Wilderness carrying knapsacks stuffed with spare green clothing, some men however left their spare clothing, overcoats, and extra blankets in camp (buried in boxes, as per Wyman White's account). There is further evidence from some recent diary discoveries that at least one Sharpshooter in the 1st Regt. wore a blouse after he tossed away his knapsack; does this mean he and others were issued blouses AND uniform coats, and he simply stowed his green coat in his knapsack which he tossed away? He did make note that he had nothing else to cover him at night, but later on in his diary he seemed to have picked up another cast-off knapsack. This account along with several others place men in full green uniforms with some blouses, either issued for fatigue use in full to both regiments, or retained by some men from the previous year. Of course the ubiquitous red III Corps badge was not present; it was a blue one. This fact is overlooked quite often.

If only there was an authentic Yorktown, Chancellorsville, or Petersburg....us hardworking Sharpshooter types would have it made for once!

Brian White
Randoloph Mess, USSS &
Slackerz Saloon Mess, GHTI

[Marc]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

Post edited for insertion of modern politics. JS Mod

As to the fatique blouse and the green frock...would not the USSS been issued the green frock and a fatique blouse much like other regular infantry units with blue frock and fatique blouse?

Of course in the beginning they were changing uniforms so fast from grey overcoat, the Whipple hat etc..I bet they even wondered what do I wear today.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

Marc,

It appears that the men in both Sharpshooter regiments were issued a blouse or a frock, most commonly NOT together. In fact a lot of infantry regiments did not even practice carrying two different upper garments at a time. There is an order written by Lt. Col. Trepp after Gettysburg that stated the men in the 1st USSS had to carry both blouse AND coat (maybe Curt has this?), and the order appears to coincide with the late July 1863 issuances (shoot me your e-mail and I will send you an excellent article by my friend Bill Skillman) as well as an order around the same time that stated all men in the 1st Div. of the III Corps must draw a uniform coat or state-issue jacket (do away with hats as well, caps all the way, and also toss the boots!). Whether or not the order was even issued in earnest to the 1st Regt. men is unknown.

In addition, there exists an original USSS frock (unfortunately not well known and it looks it will stay that way...jealousy has done it's work in this case) which was worn by a 1st Regiment man upon his return to his company after recovery of wounds recieved at Second Bull Run. This frock was more than likely worn in early 1863, turned in on June 11th (the date they boxed their green coats and drew blouses) and never drawn again, or maybe it was sent home instead of being boxed. In any case, the war-time owner was wounded in the shoulder while crossing the Rappahanock during the intense firefight at Kelly's Ford in Nov. 1863 and the original frock shows no sign of a bullet hole. It's well-worn though and a lot of modifications have been done, it's clearly not the garment worn during the wounding; maybe another frock was worn, or even a blouse. We just don't know and probably never will.

Right now my mess practices a standard "blouses in late spring through mid fall, coats for everything else" when we go to "generic" events. If the event is scenario-specific, however, we scour original sources for the most appropriate thing to wear. In the case of an even coming up in July, we will br portraying Co. F 1st USSS at Gaines Mill in 1862. We're going with unlined blouses, blue pants, green caps, and absolutely nothing else but a shirt, socks, bootees, and gum blanket.

Brian White

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Sharpshooters dress uniforms?

Guys,

Let's keep this thread on the subject of uniforms and away from modern issues like NPS signage, the dearth of authentic sharpshooters, and reenacting politics within the USSS community. To bring this thread back on track, I deleted a few posts and pruned one or two others.

If you want to propose events or discuss the pros and cons of NPS interpretive programs, take it to The Sinks.

We now continue with previously scheduled programming...

[privstull]

Lane's Brigade sharpshooter badges

Hello pards,

Does anyone know what the sharpshooters badges looked like in Lane's Brigade and if so the deminsions of them? My unit and I need to have badges similar to the original ones for an upcoming event but do not know what they look like. We have documentation that there were badges but nothing telling what they looked like, what they were made out of, and what the deminsions were. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Enfilade]

Re: Lane's Brigade sharpshooter badges

Ryan,

I'm always interested in documented items and especially those surrounding North Carolinians. Even moreso, those with Lane's Brigade. Can you please post that information you have documented?

Thanks in advance,

Mark Berrier
North State Rifles
combinations@northstate.net

[privstull]

Re: Lane's Brigade sharpshooter badges

It came out of a letter from a private in the 37th NC that one of my pards was able to look at awhile back. I do not have the entire letter copied but the one quote:

" As we waited our brigade sharpshooters were sent to the front, but were easliy seen for the badges which they wore."

This makes me believe that the badges were of a bright color of perhaps red but once more I have no other documentation. This is also the only time I have heard about the sharpshooters in Lane's brigade. I was just seeing if anyone else had by chance any other information. This is only the little information I have on the subject of badges and sharpshooters in Lane's brigade. Any help would be greatly appreciated.