Confederate Sharpshooters

[hiplainsyank]

Re: ANV Tactics: 3 lines of skirmishers...cloud of skirmishers.

Is this the missing link between this thread and the Emory Upton 1866/7 tactics discussion?

Just curious.

[RJSamp]

Re: ANV Tactics: 3 lines of skirmishers...cloud of skirmishers.

Is this the missing link between this thread and the Emory Upton 1866/7 tactics discussion?

Just curious.

Well I posted 3 lines of skirmishers as a new thread on Sunday. Just posted on Upton today. Two different topics to me.... Upton's tactical innovation is 4's.....you feed men, cavalry, cannon into the battle by 4's. Need 100 rifles on the line, you feed in the first 25 4's into the line.

[Gary of CA]

Re: ANV Tactics: 3 lines of skirmishers...cloud of skirmishers.

I've read another account where the Confederate sharpshooters preceded all others. They advanced and the terrain dictated how they moved. It was basically from cover to cover with less attention to distance between themselves than a skirmisher would. They were supported by their skirmish line paid more attention to the distance between themselves. The skirmishers followed the sharpshooters at a distance. Finally, the line of battle brought up the rear.

In another account, I read that the Confederate sharpshooters fell back once the lines of battle became engaged. The skirmishers then became the provost who kept others from skedaddling.

[amontalvo915]

Civil War Sniper's Sight

I was looking on ebay and found this, has anybody else ever seen this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200159282472&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:72&isfrommerc=1&refitem=170154508818&itemcount=8&refwidgetloc=watch_reminder_email&refwidgettype=osi_widget&refitem=170154508818&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=watch_reminder_email&refwidgettype=osi_widget&isfrommerc=1

Ashley Montalvo

[BrianHicks]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

Nope... that's a new one for me. (Not that I would know anything about Snipers or Sniping or anything.... ;) )

Optical Sniper Scopes were in use during the Civil War (albeit in a limited capacity).

I'd like to see some source documentation placing that e-bay item in use during our period of interest.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

More likely a used modern repro. There's a thread around here somewhere and Henrich pointed out that fancy sights could be stored in the patchbox of the 1855 Springfield.

BTW, not all sharpshooters used "telescope" equipped guns and some used globe sights.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

More likely a used modern repro. There's a thread around here somewhere and Henrich pointed out that fancy sights could be stored in the patchbox of the 1855 Springfield.

BTW, not all sharpshooters used "telescope" equipped guns and some used globe sights.

\

I am aware that there were a few varieties of mechanical sights (vice optical) but I also understand that they were the exception, vice the norm.

I'd still like to see the period documentation on the item presented above.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

From Comrade Curt Heinrich-Schmidt:

It wasn't an experiment, but standard issue from 1857-1859.

The early versions of the U.S. Model 1855 Rifle had a patchbox that was mortised for the figure eight shaped or double ring shaped crosshair front sight that was secured to the front sight with a set screw.
If one examines original M1855 Rifles, all of the three early versions that have a long mose cap have implement boxes that are milled for the crosshair sight. It was deleted in 1859.

Most standard references c arry this info, such as Robert Riley's UNITED STATES MILITARY SMALL ARMS 1816-1865 or Paul Davies monograph on the M1855 Rifle from 1983.
There used to be an 1855 RM and R collector that set up a display of every type of M1855 at the Ashland, Ohio Civil War Gun Show for many years.

Curt

Mind you, I never did get a copy of Robert Riley's book so I haven't confirmed it.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

Hallo!

Correct.

It appears to be the "so-so" reproduction of the U.S. M1855 Rifle "long range" so-called "Figure Eight Front Sight."

The first in the series of the new U.S. Model 1855 Rifle, made in 1857 and 1858, was brass mounted and browned barrelled, with a "long" nosecap. All stocks made for the long nosecap had the "implement" or "patchbox" mortise milled to take the "figure eight" front sight.
Later in 1858, the long range ("roller coaster") rear sight was replaced with the "short range" rear sight.
Starting in 1859 the M1855 Rifle was further changed over to iron furniture, the short range rear sight, but still with the long brass nosecap.
Later in 1859, they again made changes, goingn with the short brass nosecap- and eliminating both the "figure eight" front sight and its mortise in the implement box. The brass nosecaps werwe replaced later in 1859 with iron ones.

At any rate, it is not a "sniper" thing in either name or function.

I used to have one for my brass mounted, first M1855 Rifle variety (it looked nice in a fully stocked "patchbox") , but sold the Rifle years ago. I suspect since the barrels of the "Springfield" and "Enfield" are thicker than the original rifle-muskets, and closer to the rifles.... that the M1855 "Figure Eight" front sight MIGHT would fit a repro Springfield or Enfield if one can get passed the historical chasm, er question, of "Why??"

Dixie Gun Works still lists them for sale as a "Remington Zouave Sniper Sight." And suitable for the M1841 Mississippi Rifle.
Sigh...

Herr Gary... Dare I say it? Robert Reilly is partially wrong in his M1855 Rifle commentary. He says (page 38) that the iron -mounted versions of the M1855 Rifle are without the Figure 8 front sight. That is true, except for the first of the limited production run iron-mounted versions that still retained the long brass nosecap- and the "Figure 8" front sight.
On the other hand, it is true the last of the variations, post late 1859, that were all iron-mounted, did not.

Curt

[amontalvo915]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

So this would probably be nice to pick up if you have an 1855 Springfield?

[Gary of CA]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

If you want it and bid, don't bid more than what Dixie Gun Works sells them for (including postage).

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

Hallo!

"So this would probably be nice to pick up if you have an 1855 Springfield?"

No.

They were used for the first four out of five M1855 RIFLE variations- from the first in 1857 through 1859.
They would NOT be appropriate for any of the M1855 Rifle-Muskets.

I may be Out of the Loop, but I do not recall any Italian repro M1855 Rifles being made...

Curt

[amontalvo915]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

I know someone with an original 1855, I was thinking about buying it, and was searching for a sling and this popped up.

[Duff]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

Just a fact to throw in,

The term "sniper" was not used until circa 1900 by the British. It was a term for the scouts/marksmen the British had in south Africa. It was not used outside of that area until WWI.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Civil War Sniper's Sight

Sniper actually goes back to the 18th Century. However, when it crept into the American venacular is debatable and for the Civil War, I've only found it used several times and those are suspect. In those cases, the memoirs were penned after the Boer War and WW I popularized the word. David Holt's memoir (Ballard, Michael & Cockrell, Thomas, eds. A Mississippi Rebel in the Army of Northern Virginia. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 1995) is a good example of a post 19th Century usage. Overall I would agree with Duff to stay away from "sniper" in reference to a Civil War era sharpshooter-even if he using a telescope rifle.