Reproduction Civilian Arms

[23rdIllinoisIrish]

I'm putting together a civilian/early war MSG impression and am in need of a repo double barrel shotgun, "deer rifle," or "squirrel rifle." I am familiar with the sites such as gunbroker and other antique gun markets but would prefer a reproduction to take into the field with me.

Does anybody have any suggestions on who offers quality civilian repo arms?

Thanks,
For Missouri and the Cause,
Matthew Jas. Shomaker

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Hallo!

One possible resource is TRACK OF THE WOLF'S on-line site:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(wheyvl45dolksqye1bjhna45))/categories/partList.aspx?catID=12&subID=83&styleID=290

IMHO, by and large, the mass produced, commercial Italian import line usually falls way short on historical civilian type arms- and most lads are not knowledgeable about or have access to custom-makers or custom-builts.
While TRACK's pricing is considered high by some due to their 33% commission, there are sometimes some nice pieces to be had at a decent price.

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

You can also build something from one of those kits and end up with a decent weapon. There is really a great deal of misunderstanding batting around these parts on Civilian weapons of the Civil War period, and when published, "Wearing the Gray" (late 2008 or early 2009) will dispell many of the myths.

It is not that hard to do. There are numerous originals to study. I built a very decent flintlock "American Mtn Rifle" from a kit and you can make the corrections as you go along. Or you can go the custom route. A shotgun is a a good choice, too. Options aplenty.

Curt Heinrich Schmidt will not steer you wrong. "Track" is a good starting place.

[gilham]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

I have been shooting black powder civilian arms for 20 years and have built several kits. When I started building, kits were about 80.00 bucks. I would suggest getting the new Dixie gun works catalog and ordering one of thier kits. Thompson Center has a Hwken kit that is based on an original Hawkens Bros. rifle for about $ 200.00. You can make it as fancy or as plain as you like.
Hope this helps

[ohpkirk]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

I've always liked the Rustic Arms long arms though many predate our era, some, like the Carolina gun and the Barn gun may be applicable to your impression.

Also, you can't go wrong with Taylor Anderson at Fort Comanche here in Texas. One of the guys in my Texas State Troops unit has a m1817 common rifle made by him.....spot on in all aspects.

[fahtz]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

As for MSG, the quality and type of weapons varied greatly. Farmers and small town men often carried well outdated weapons. flintlocks and weapons that were past ther prime were previlent, also the well maintained heirloom rifles and fowlers we also through the ranks. One thing you need to take into consideration is what type of MSG impression you are doing. Rememebr at any given time there we unarmed men in the ranks. Save up for a nice weapon, borrow if needed, or work on the unarmed impression. The unarmed men often picked up weapons fromt heir fallen counterparts as well. I ten to buy any original/reproduction civian weapon I can afford and find. I like many other MSG living historians have many weapons that we can loan out to a pard looking to field. Drop me a line if you need more state guard information.

[MoFed]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

"I would suggest getting the new Dixie gun works catalog and ordering one of thier kits. Thompson Center has a Hwken kit that is based on an original Hawkens Bros. rifle for about $ 200.00."

The PEC choice for MSG (mostly farmers) would be a single or double barrel shotgun or a Tennessee/Kentucky rifle, in percussion or flintlock. Although Hawken's rifles were made in St. Louis, they were expensive, custom-built and produced in comparatively small numbers (someone with better access to gun collector books may have an exact figure). Not to say there weren't any in the MSG, but the other options would have been much more common.

Charles D. Hoskins

[tiger_rifles]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Don't forget about all the older, smooth-bore, military arms that were cutdown, or atleast had the stocks cut back, you will often see these listed as "Single barrel Shotguns". These can be left as flintlocks or corverted to percussion. Many modern repro's are availible in these models.
Paul Bennett

[csasoldier_61]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

There is a military smoothbore (M1842 Springfield I think) that was cut down to a shotgun in the museum at the Mansfield SCA that shows a lot of good detail. It would be really interesting to see in the field. IMHO I think that it is underrepresented.

Adam "OX" Johnson

[ACo.]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

There is a military smoothbore (M1842 Springfield I think) that was cut down to a shotgun in the museum at the Mansfield SCA that shows a lot of good detail. It would be really interesting to see in the field. IMHO I think that it is underrepresented.

Adam "OX" Johnson

Why "underrepresented" in our hobby Adam? The gun was cut down post CW.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Hallo!

IMHO, the Thompson-Center "Hawken" and its legions of Italian and Spanish clones are not based on a Jake and Sam, or Sam Hawken (so-called) "plains rifle" other than they are half-stocked and percussion.
A side-by-side comparison with post 1840's "Hawken Shop-St.Louis" Samuel Hawken, Christopher Hawken, William Hawken, Christian Hoffman, Tristam Campbell, William Watt, or J. P. Gemmer made "Hawkens" will show only a very minor, superficial resemblance- and are NOT a very "authentic" choice for an eastern civilian rifle of the CW era.

Historically, for that matter, they were not even that common among "mountainmen" largely falling after the end of the beaver trade, and due to being very expensive to the point that Hawken Shop record books typically show orders coming from fur trade company "exec's" and brigade leaders and not the company men or free trappers. They sold more to Gold Rushers and wagon train guides posing as real or former mountainmen... ;-)

IMHO, a "Tennessee" type rifle or various percussion half stock or full stock "deer" type rifles (say a so-called "Ohio Rifle") are more common- perhaps second only to the versatile shotgun.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Jeff Prechtel]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Like Curt stated, I too would steer waaaaay clear of any
pre-made "Hawkin" clone that's currently offered on the
market by Thompson & etc, as they're historically inaccurate.

I'd look at the Southern style "Barn" guns if you're impression/persona
lives in the rural south, small caliber .45, 40. 32 long rifles, also work
for various regions, Penn, anywhere in Appalachia, Kentucky, Tennessee,
and the closer you get to Ohio, Indiana or Illinois, start looking at Ohio Valley
1/2 stock "Perch Belly" rifles, or a good, well made, correct heavy barreled, "plains"
style rifle, something that would have made the trek on the Oregon or California trails.

As far as "Military" style weapons.....unless you live on or near the frontier;
meaning, Texas, Kansas, Missouri border, Arkansas, or have traveled one
of the previous mentioned OR/Ca trails, I pretty much doubt you'd have a military
weapon for hunting. You might have your Grandfather's or Father's old military
musket, 1816, 1842, or an old Mississippi rifle (these made the trip out west a-plenty)

I'd really try and stick with a small caliber rifle, or a shot gun, if you can find one.
Those are going to be tough to come by tho......I haven't seen too many floating
around that weren't originals, or very expensive custom built repros.

If you run the small Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifle route, I'd consider getting
a small pigskin hunting bad to go with it, and/or a small day horn....if you
get a flintlock. Good luck with your search.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Anothere source for civilian arm is "The Possible Shop" They have many of the PA, TN, NC, KY, and Hawken repro and hand made rifles in many calibers.

[Jeff Prechtel]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Here's a sample of "civilian" firearms, that would probably
work for you.These are from Track of the Wolf's site...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAE-373

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAE-678

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAE-717

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=81&styleId=280&partNum=AAE-684

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=83&styleId=290&partNum=AAE-150

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(zarmob45aro01kbhjzg45lvf))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=78&styleId=266&partNum=AAE-369

[tiger_rifles]

Re: Repo Civilian Arms

Why "underrepresented" in our hobby Adam? The gun was cut down post CW.
__________________
T.P. Hern
formerly, Co. A, 4th Virginia
Stonewall Brigade

When Sibley's Army leaves Texas in late 1861, it is reported that they carry every arm possible. From Squirrel Rifles to Bear Rifles, Single and Double Barrel Shotguns, Older Military and Civilian Arms cut back for Mounted Service. Rounds have been found to match these weapons at the last Battle of this Campaigne at Glorietta just outside of Santa Fe N.M., March of 1862, eventhough many modern Military weapons and ammo were captured along the way.
So how can we be sure every cut-back military arm we see was done "Post CW"?
Paul Bennett