Reproduction Civilian Arms

[mslaird]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

I must admit that I did not realize that combination guns existed to great extent at that time. I knew that there were some but I believed those to be limited in availability. Thanks for the information and a new avenue of research for me to look at.

[fahtz]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

One specific MSG account points to James Harding (QM of Missouri) refurbishing the flintlock muskets to percussion firing systems just before the war. At the same time he was purchasing hundreds of civilian hunting weapons. The numbers of these state: 300 rifles in .58 caliber, 600 .69 caliber and some artillery short swords. does this mean the MSG had 42's and enfields? NOPE! This means that they had old converted 16's and 22's and also some 55 pattern muskets. We can point to one specific company that had the 55 pattern muskets. Kelly's Company out of St Louis had been outfitted with the 55 pattern rifle prior to the Camp Jackson Massacre. Another type of military rifle in the hands of the state guard is the Mississippi Rifle, these were taken from the arsenal at Liberty. Also in KC they acquired Burnside carbines.
So this means by the summer of 61 the MSG marching with Price had a huge variation of weapons. What people need to remember is that the state guard was often split. An example is that the 2nd division MSG can not be painted with the same brush as the force marching with Price. The 2nd division held to the northern part of the state for the early moments of the war in Missouri, and had predominately civilian weapons.

[mslaird]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

I agree and with the amount of research that I have done, which albeit is a bit limited compared to the vast amount of knowledge gathered amongst the members of this forum, I believe that the Enfield was not a common weapon at all in the Trans Mississippi until possibly late 1862 early 1863. I was astonished to learn over the course of the summer and this fall that the Austrian Lorenze was apparently here in some numbers and you are absolutely correct that the 1841, 1855, and 1842 (rifled) were the predominant rifled arms on the fields west of the Mississippi. I believe as well that the 1816/1822, thier conversions, and the 1842 were probably the most common infantry arms used in the west during the early part of the war. I would give the greater edge in numbers to the 1816/1822 muskets and thier conversions, unfortunately I do not see many of those amongst those participating in living history events. I theorize that this is more due to the higher cost of the reproductions than anything else. I myself would love to get one and use it and probably would have but, my 1842 was purchased for me and I do not decry a gift from a loved one.

One thing that always galled me was the units that exist here in my backyard that inaccurately portray regiments that I have ancestors that actually fought in during the Civil War. I went to some living history events before I picked a unit to fall in with and observed them. I read on thier requirments that they demand that people equip themselves with 1861 Springfields and Enfields which would not have been in the table of equipment for those regiments until the late war period. These same said folks will participate in living history events at Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove and they look as out of place as would 4th Virginia Infantry or Barksdale's Mississippi Brigade at those events.

I have been throwing around the idea amongst my collegues in the academic community about writing a book that details the organization and equipment of the units on both sides of the conflict that were involved in actions in Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana. I believe that a book of that subject matter would be a good work to complete and would be very beneficial to those that participate in our hobby.

[fahtz]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

Matthew,
I want to clear up the fact that my above comments refer ONLY to the boys in the Missouri State Guard, as that is where the majority of my current research falls.

[mslaird]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

Matthew,
I want to clear up the fact that my above comments refer ONLY to the boys in the Missouri State Guard, as that is where the majority of my current research falls.

I understand,

Have you seen any documentation about the usage of the Lorenze amongst the ranks of the MSG? I would think that it would be post Wilson's Creek. This is something that has perplexed me since I found out about that over the summer.

[fahtz]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

The accounts are pretty good about labeling other types of muskets (other than the US Arsenal line). I have seen nothing to show the MSG had access to the Lorenz. The safest bet for MSG impressions is still the civilian weapon.

[mslaird]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

I was puttering around the Track of the Wolf site and they have a fairly good selection at the moment, which is not always the case, at least for affordable firearms. I would be reluctant to take a 2000.00 plus flintlock work of art out in the field too much. Thanks again for your advice.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

As stated by others, Track of the Wolf does have a nice selection, but because of their commission/mark up the prices are a little much.



Here is an original 1830's plains rifle converted from flint to percussion in the 1850's that I have purchased for $335.00. You just have to look around to find some nice ones for a good price.

[fahtz]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

I myself am picking up an original shotgun from a local antiques mall for a fraction of what the reproductions cost, and it is actually correct for field use.

[mslaird]

Re: Reproduction Civilian Arms

That is one mighty fine looking rifle Mr. Mobley. Thanks for the picture.

I have been eyeballing the boxlock that they have listed at the moment. Its definately different.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(04iazm45axotbwuomyqi4vaj))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=83&styleId=290&partNum=AAC-726

They also have a couple of half stock .54 caliber rifles that are under $800.00. I am always hopeful for a flint fowling piece, though.