SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

[Charles Heath]

....would you be willing to have your knapsack picked up by an individual on the opposing team, and used for the duration of the weekend? Taking into consideration you would know in advance, and be able to pack (or pack less) accordingly. If so, why. If not, why not.

Rammers. Bayonets. Blankies. Now this....

[Pvt Peck]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Mr. Heath having done this very scenario a number of times many, many years ago the biggest trouble we found was with "control" of who picked up the packs, if indeed any body did! What tended to happen was the plan either went off as expected, or the packs were missed and just left unguarded or collected by anyone. We ended up deciding to have our lines overun (we, being Federals in this case) & we being pushed back some distance, letting our sister CS unit literally ransack our packs, then we retook our positons. After this scenario our packs were much lighter and our CS friends had fresh socks, shirts, etc... We planned it this way so that if our pards did not overrun us and somebody else did we would leave a few "casualties" to oversee our packs, then retake our positon at some point and "recapture" our packs. This scenario was usually worked out between the company officers and Sgt.s, the men not knowing that this had been set up, but then letting them in on it once we returned to find our stuff scattered all over the place and our packs ransacked. At the end of the event the US & CS companies would fall in and everyone's stuff would find its way back to the rightful owner. I LOVED how it turned out once we had the bugs worked out, but I only think I would be comfortable doing it at a very small, controlled event. Neat idea though, hope you are able to work it in at an event.

Edward Parrott

[Charles Heath]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

That's precisely what we don't want to have happen. Next....

[Pvt Peck]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

If I understand you correctly you prefer to have the packs taken intact, that is what we were shooting for as well. The above was just an example of what we ended up doing to try to keep the idea going as nobody was comfortable with leaving their pack and everything in it unattend in the field, and hoping the right guys picked them up. I think it is an excellent scenario to have to deal with the loss of a large part of your equipment and "rough it" for the rest of the weekend. If you could guarentee that my pack would end up back in my hands at the end of the event I'd do it in a heartbeat. We could not provide that and so came up with the previous mentioned set up. I listed why I'd do it above, as to the why not, I think the main concern is having your very expensive gear ripped off, thats the only reason I'd hesitate. As you said, next....

Edward Parrott

[Charles Heath]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Edward,

The Justin Wilson moment is pretty much a given, but anything can happen. The real question comes along when folks may have to leave early, or have some other difficulty. Given both groups have worked together before, and a brief admin moment may be required at the time of drop and and at the time of pick up, and then again at the final formation. The "owner" of the individual knapsacks will have something important belonging to the "borrower" to "trade" at the end.

I'm wondering how much distance your knapsacks covered? These will cover somewhere in the neighborhood of eight miles.

[Parault]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

I think that it is a fascinating concept. But to make it come off like clock work it would require close supervision in order to make it comfortable for everyone.

The idea of having a sister company,or a Battalion v Battalion that works well,and knows each other well enough in a Brigade that will be facing off,might work. But as stated earlier it would have be concise planning.

[Pvt Peck]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Charles:
Good idea on the having something to trade back for the packs at the end. Sounds like this will be a very controlled event with a select group of people taking part if you are moving in miles rather than yards. You should be able to make it work if fellows will step up and try living with the bare, bare, minimum. Actually, if you are are going to be marching that distance ( will this be per day, or over the duration of the event) it might be a blessing to "lose" your pack. One problem we had was that the events we tried this at were VERY mainstream and we did not have the kind of oversite we would have liked. Our packs by the way have moved over a fair distance in their time, my poor old Artifakes needs to go to knapsack heaven, & thanks to the AC I know were to get a sutible replacement, now where are you going to be dropping those packs?

Edward Parrott

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

"Lucy, I thin' you proposin' heresy!"

If folks complained about the unannounced dropping of packs for much of the weekend at Rich Mountain 2006, and folks constantly complain that they dislike contributing ammo to ammo-issue scenarios because "I always get someone else's inferior rounds", then having someone else rifle through, mis-use, dirty-up, and possibly damage their personal gear during a weekend, probalby would not go over very well, sad to say.

[MassVOL]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Charles,
Absolutely possible with the following safety net measures:
1.) packs all had the same packing list.
2.) Gaining unit did not take the field with acquired items
3.) All items had their owner’s roster number on them.
4.) Managed by the NCOs.

[DougCooper]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

I think just as valuable as actually losing your knapsacks would be the decision process to retain them or post a guard over them in a position where they are sufficiently behind the lines to be safe.

I am trying to imagine an event where one side in battalion strength would drop knapsacks and have them vulnerable to capture in the normal order of things. Perhaps a mass surrender like a Harpers Ferry scenario or some such would be good here, or an event where something of this sort did occur - such as Glendale. Several federal regiments dropped knapsacks and went into the fight, only to emerge elsewhere, losing their stuff. None were happy but all learned something valuable and would reconsider the next time.

Maybe, finally we would get folks to start marking their gear?

[Hank Trent]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Another possibility, with different pros and cons, is doing it the other way around--having Side A loan their knapsacks to Side B to wear before the start of the event as if they belonged to Side B, then capturing their "own" knapsacks back during the event.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[flattop32355]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

"Lucy, I thin' you proposin' heresy!"

If folks complained about the unannounced dropping of packs for much of the weekend at Rich Mountain 2006, and folks constantly complain that they dislike contributing ammo to ammo-issue scenarios because "I always get someone else's inferior rounds", then having someone else rifle through, mis-use, dirty-up, and possibly damage their personal gear during a weekend, probalby would not go over very well, sad to say.

The obvious differences between then and now speak to the above:

They were at war; we aren't. We're just play acting.
They generally didn't buy the gear, it was issued; we have to pay for it all.
The general atmosphere of distrust within our present age; one's word is no longer "good enough".
They never expected to see lost gear again; we absolutely do.

That being said, it's doable provided everyone is on the same page, and time is allowed for an accounting at or near the end of the weekend. It must be assumed that something will go wrong somehow, though unintentional, and a remedy provided. (An extra dollar or two added to the event fee to reimburse damaged gear? If not needed, it goes to preservation.)

Hank's suggestion may be the best one, the only difficulty being to make sure you get yours back after the fight, since you probably won't be picking up your own during it.

[Michael Comer]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

I'd probably go along with it. I left my blankie at RM and just took a gum blanket without giving it much thought. I threw my knapsack in an ox cart at BGR with no guarantee I'd see it for a while if ever. Kind of stupid in retrospect I suppose and the naysayers chided me with tales of doom, but it was kind of neat too, pitching camp and wondering if I'd have my stuff before dark - I did and it was a good feeling to see that cart roll into camp.

At the type of event I'm sure this would be, I think it would be a pretty safe bet that you would get your stuff back. It would seem pretty strange though, carrying someone else's knapsack with their belongings. The key is to make sure you've got your essentials out of it if you're worried about not seeing it again.

[Secesh]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

Sadly tho', not all authentic reenactors conform to that sense of honor and brotherhood with our fellow campaigners. I recall an event a year or two back where our camp was overrun by Union reenactors. We returned to camp only to find that in our absence one or more Feds had run water down their barrels, and then to "be funny" poured it out onto our blankets. I'll keep my knapsack on my back, thanks. Best regards.

[cprljohnivey]

Re: SQ:6 If you knew it would be returned....

To piggy back on what Trent said... why not have Side A loan empty knapsacks to side B to fill from a pile of stuff privided by the event organizes as part of a ration issues. this can include period books, newspapers, canned food, etc... Side B simply goes to the pile, fills a knapsack they are carrying with stuff, then totes it until ordered to drop packs. Then when side A captures THEIR knapsack, they don't know whats in it. Neither side risks losing anything (except the knapsack itself) and side B gets the expericence of capturing something. Side A gets the experience of losing their knapsack because they had to carry the "loaner" and not their own... so they still don't have thier blankets and teddy bears to sleep with.