Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

[Longbranch 1]

Sirs,

I have so far not found documentation of these practices.

Numerous citations do exist of the capture of men AND ARMS in battle.
Removed to the rear of the line possessing weapons. Disposition of both captives ( Parole/ Prisoner, etc ) and weapons made there.

Having prisoners " Reverse Arms " the only carry arms position I can corroborate as muzzle down, and having the effect of basically handcuffing one.....
or possibly " Sling Arms" ( at will ) Muzzle down position.

Not looking to promote any re-enactorisms. It might be as simple as KISS.

Citations , either way, appreciated,
Kevin Ellis,
26th NCT

[BrianHicks]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Having to consider the practical fact few men would tolerate being separated from their expensinve rifles while at an event:

Have a member of the capturing party carry the prisoners arms. Once they are placed in a holding area, have their arms stacked at a respectable distance from them.

[WestTN_reb]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

IIRC, Reverse Arms is to be used for funerals and memorials. It falls into the same catagory as Rest on Arms (not sure the proper wording on commands, but will look it up).

[Clsinclair]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Rest on Arms and Reverse Arms can be found in Upton's. I don't document everything that I read but I did read somewhere that at times prisoners had to take their cap and cartridge boxes off and carry their own muskets until they reached a certain point.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Someone oughtta write an essay about how to "take prisoners" in reenacting, including how to handle the "captured" gear...

Wait a minute....

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Someone oughtta write an essay about how to "take prisoners" in reenacting, including how to handle the "captured" gear...

Wait a minute....

For the information of whoever writes that essay - at one event those of us who died on the field were resurrected and then lumped with those who surrendered and marched away as prisoners. The good news for us, however, came from a member of the bar who had died with us on the battlefield. He assured us that the paroles we were compelled to give were not binding on the dead.

Robert A. Mosher

[IowaYank]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Robert, I believe what Kevin is alluding to is the article that he wrote several years ago about just this topic. Look under the research articles section at the top of this page to find it.

[Clsinclair]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Someone oughtta write an essay about how to "take prisoners" in reenacting, including how to handle the "captured" gear...

Wait a minute....

Kevin,

It appears it was one of your articles that I read. Good article!

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Thanks for the kind words. My post above was tongue-in-cheek because the essay is in the Research Articles folder of this very subforum, and is in the CRRC2.

It's not an end-all/be-all work on the topic, but it tries to cover some of the most obvious basics. I have never heard of original soldiers capturing prisoners and having them walk with their own arms at "reverse arms"; that doesn't mean that maybe it didn't happen--it merely means that I have never read or heard of such a thing. There's plenty of other examples of soldiers surrendering and simply tossing their arms on the ground. Usually after a battle the side that won (i.e., in possession of the field) sent parties over the field to collect the reusable military equipage and bury the dead. I've never read of original Civil War soldiers writing that they carried their own weapons when taken prisoner, or carried those of their enemies when they took others prisoner.

Of course, in reenacting that doesn't work and some type of arrangement (and often a compromise with "authenticity") has to be made relative to capture, keeping, and return of a reenactor's ordnance stores. My essay attempts to suggest some means by which this can be done, even down to the very "inaccurate" (as I believe it) approach of having POWs at an event carry their own weapons to a collection point. As I see it, the best way to do that is to have them uncap the gun, remove the charge (often this means only pouring it out), and then carry the weapon in front, inverted (butt-end in the air, over the POW's head). Other approaches (many that are more "authentic") can and have been used as well.

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Robert, I believe what Kevin is alluding to is the article that he wrote several years ago about just this topic. Look under the research articles section at the top of this page to find it.

Thanks for pointing out the commercials.

Robert A. Mosher

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Not a commercial. Merely observing that a readily available essay on the topic has already covered many of the complete basics, and could be used in part as a platform for further research, writing, and discussion.

Then again, we can simply reinvent the wheel over and over and over again.

[Longbranch 1]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Maybe this link will work.

This is the image that was rattlin' round in my pea brain


http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/nhnycw/ag/ag001ag...

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/nhnycw/ag/ag0073fv.jpg

Regards,
Kevin Ellis,
26th NC

[Longbranch 1]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Somehow I knew that wouldn't work.

I hope that some kind and knowledgeable soul might post it for me :D
Site:
American Memory
Civil War Treasures from the New York Historical Society

Digital I.D. # : nhnycw/ag ag0073f

Or search for Patrick Cronen

Effusive thanks,
Kevin Ellis,
26th NC

[dnaples]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

Here is a picture of a thief being drummed out by the "Rogue's March" at Morris Island, South Carolina in 1863. I know this image has been used on this forum before, but I couldn't find it using the search function. Here you see reversed arms being used by the guards.

[Longbranch 1]

Re: " Sling Arms " ", Reverse Arms" , and "Taking Prisoners"

David,

This image is similar to the sketch I alluded to.

*( Fate of a Coward, Drumming out at New Bern of Patrick Cronen of Worcester, Co E 25th Mass.)

While I cannot be sure, it appears that in both images the miscreant bears the indignity of being head-shaved and wearing a sign articulating their violation, and neither is wearing a blouse or Frock.
I am a little curious as to the protocol on the last.

* the Sketch I can't seem to post shows the offender being marched through facing Cos of the Regiment,' a la Chuck Conners.

Any references, specific or in general, to the immediate fate of soldiers drummed out of service, behind enemy lines, so to speak?

Thanks,
Kevin Ellis,
26th NC