S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

[wade03]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Wade,

Per Huse's own writing on all the I&C invoices I've viewed, frames were "disallowed" and the charges dropped. I can't remember if Cody's Ross & Co. pack had a frame or not, but all the examples I've seen are without. Even though he amassed huge debt purchasing items for the CS Gov't, Huse was quite the stickler with frivolous items that could be produced in the Southern states. Canteens and haversacks are also absent from Huse's purchases which I've always found interesting; only one purchase of each for the entire conflict (as far as records have shown).

Anyway, your mention of the NC pack possibly being a CS copy really has me interested. A December, 1862, running invoice for the English steamer "The Justitia" (per the McRae Papers) lists 10,000 sets of knapsack hardware, 500 some-odd lbs of "leather knapsack trimmings", 7000 yards of enameled cloth, "black bridle middlings for knapsack straps", etc. etc. Lots of information in this document to argue for CS production (potential) of domestic goods based on English patterns. There are actually several other examples of such items. Please give us more information or does anyone have quick access to the collection? I'd love to see some images of that knapsack!

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

Well, As for the first part of your post I was looking at Jarnigans website which stateed that they made their pack from the one in THEIR collection and that the frame was included in the original and ditto with the reproduction. So maybe it is a CS made frame? Interesting, I think i might add a frame in the one I'm making.\

Enameled cloth....That makes perfect sense! The original I studied was painted black but did not have the distinctive smell, look or feel of the linseen oil/ lamp black/ japan drier/ and turpintine. so enamel....I bet that was what was on it. I believe it was CS made b/c The stiching is semi-sloppy, Sometimes they even backstiched the leather in place instead of saddle stiching it. It wasn't marked at all. It wasn't linen. And It had completely different hardware. On first thought I guessed it was cotton but further thought and studying made me believe it was hemp! Actually this knapsack belonged to McRae...i think...

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Would you happen to have the museum catalog number for the pack at the NC state museum? When I saw the pack it was only briefly as it just happened to be in a back room on the table while I was going to look at some other items at the museum, only briefly glanced at it in passing. I would like to take a better look next time I'm down but can't find the catalog info via the website search.

Regards,

Is this the knapsack in question?

http://ncmuseumofhistory.org/MOH/vfp...ATABASE=398977,

Artifact Description: PAINTED COTTON KNAPSACK WITH LEATHER TABS ON CORNERS, LEATHER STRAPS, BRASS BUCKLES AND WOODEN BAR ACROSS TOP; RECTANGULAR, FLAP OPENS TOWARD WEARERS BACK.

Access#: 1917.26.3
Artifact Class: MILITARIA
Associations: MACRAE, JOHN BURGWYN/ASSOCIATED WITH
Dimensions: [Lt]1' 4 9/16" [Wdt]5 1/2" [Ht]1' 3 3/4"
Materials: COTTON --LEATHER --BRASS
Date Made: 1862-1865
Place Made: UNITED KINGDOM ENGLAND LONDON JERMYN STREET
Place Used: USA NORTH CAROLINA
Use History: 1862 --AD -- --1865 --AD

[Iron Scout]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Wade,

Just because something looks sloppy doesn't mean it's not English and has to be CS produced. From what Brian posted, it appears the bag in question is English with the Jermyn Street address. Typically, English goods are well made but below British ordnance department standards. Remember, I&C, Ross, Hebbert and all these guys were out to make money. Switching from 10spi to 7-8 spi wasn't going to hurt anyone but could certainly save production time.

The bags I've inspected exhibit numerous backstitches throughout. See the attached images; can'd do a reproduction without inspecting the original and having images as back up.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[wade03]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Wade,

Just because something looks sloppy doesn't mean it's not English and has to be CS produced. From what Brian posted, it appears the bag in question is English with the Jermyn Street address. Typically, English goods are well made but below British ordnance department standards. Remember, I&C, Ross, Hebbert and all these guys were out to make money. Switching from 10spi to 7-8 spi wasn't going to hurt anyone but could certainly save production time.

The bags I've inspected exhibit numerous backstitches throughout. See the attached images; can'd do a reproduction without inspecting the original and having images as back up.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

Neill,
You are right. But I still believe it to be a CS produced. The paclk is very soild but not to the quality of other english stuff I have seen. The hardware is COMPLETELY different, and I saw no evidence for alteration. Could it be possible that the hardeware england was sending the CS might not have all been the "normal" I&C hardware that we think of. It had iron rings and snap clips. It also had no makers mark, which i'm not sure is a strong point as some english stuff may not have been marked.

[Iron Scout]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Wade,

Great thoughts all the way around. The mention of rings and snaps now has me more interested than ever. The link Brian Koenig posted for the museum has me interested too as it mentions the Jermyn St location. Wonder how they figured that if it's unmarked? I believe numerous suppliers made these so unmarked examples are certainly within the 9-10 we discussed earlier.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[PanzerJager]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Neill,

I am good pards with one of the head curators at the museum, I will shoot him an email and see if he can provide any more information on pack. When he and I briefly looked at the pack on the table we both thought it was English made but as I stated before this was just a passing glance not more then a few minutes. I’ll see if he can add anything and post it here.

Regards

[Iron Scout]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Seth,

Thanks for your efforts on this; any images would be hugely helpful. Any general views, front, back, interior and maybe some hardware shots like those attached here. Not asking for much am I?:wink_smil

Anyway, does anyone know if this pack has straps? I can honestly say I've never seen a set with the packs I've viewed. That would be a treat for sure.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[DBURT]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

For anyone who is interested , Dave Jarnagin is to do a limited run of the English messtin,( as discussed earlier in this thread) from Lon Webster's private collection.
Lon kindly lent Dave his messtin, and the repro will be an exacting copy of this original.

Dave Burt, ACWS, England.

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Does anyone own one of the Jarnagin reproduction mess tins so we might see the quality of the product?

[LWhite64]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Of note on the Atlanta History Center, as stated they have one on display, a Ross made one. They also have a mess tin on display right below it.

Lee

[PanzerJager]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Neill and all,

I heard back from my curator friend at the NC museum, it seems our initial 2 minute evaluation a few months back was wrong about being British made, here’s what he had to say when I asked him about the reference to Jermyn Street address:

“Funny you should ask right then, I have the damned thing in the lab when you wrote. Anyway, there is no reason. The curator just saw one in a book labeled Isaac Campbell and went with it. There is no real reason to believe it so...actually the hardware is all wrong so we believe that it definitely WASN'T made by them. Another contractor? A local made copy? We don't know, there is a new book out on CSA English equipment so we'll be checking. There is nothing in 'item history' file that sheds any light one way or the other. It shouldn't have been listed that way on line”

I have replied back and asked him if he could take some photos of the pack as well. It seems next time I treck back down to NC I am going to have to take a look at this one.

Regards,

[sepoy1857]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

there is a new book out on CSA English equipment so we'll be checking.

Does anyone know the tittle or author of this new book?

[Iron Scout]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Seth, Scott:

Yeah, a new book on English items, hmmm. Figured we would have heard about that. may be the book on Peter Tait. Yes, pics would be hugely helpful. Thanks for your efforts.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[LWhite64]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Could it be Lon Webster's long awaited book? Heard it was supposed to be out sometime this year.

Lee

[wade03]

Re: S Isaac Campbell Knapsack Reproductions

Here are some of the pictures I took while examining the pack. The pack had its original straps.