Period manners

[Mcguire]

At an authentic event, if you spot a civilian coming toward you portraying a woman of good character (or at least not clearly trying to portray a woman of easy virtue), ask yourself if you've been formally introduced to her. If the answer is "no" then pretend she's invisible, unless she speaks to you. At mainstream events, the opposite is usually the case, and lifting your hat and saying "Ma'am" is pretty much expected universally there. Would be happy to explain this if people want to know why the difference exists. I know we've discussed it the past, but there seem to be a fairly large number of new posters here recently.

Just a few that I've noticed,
Karin Timour

Please explain the difference, as I am ignorant to this particular protocol. Also, what was the generally accepted guide to etiquette? I would like to familiarize myself more with what was accepted and what was common for people from different classes.

This quote was from a different thread but my reply was not topical so I moved it to a more appropriate forum.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Period manners

I'll jump on this band wagon. When I read this in the other thread I wondered the same thing!

[KarinTimour]

Re: Period manners

Gentlemen:

First of all, thank you for asking! This is one of my "stumps" and I know there will be others who will have something to add, so it's a nice thread to get started.

One of the things to keep in mind is that in our period the most valuable thing that a woman possessed, if you can call it that, was her good name. In our period, women were either a) virtuous or b) whores. There was no inbetween. If your community had reason to believe that you had been messing around, you were persona non grata, which had very practical consequences. If you were unmarried, your family would likely throw you out, and the chances were good that you had considerably damaged, if not ruined, any chance of your sisters' being considered for a good marriage to a decent man. You could not be hired in the few jobs that were available -- you couldn't be a school teacher, a laundress or any kind of house servant. If you were married, your husband was obligated to throw you out and at least live separately from you -- divorce was pretty uncommon. To give you some idea, General Dan Sickles, before the war had been an amazing and acknowledged womanizer. His young wife, lonely and abandoned, started an affair with the son of Francis Scott Key. Sickles, very publicly shot Key dead in Lafayette Square Park, and was tried and acquited of the crime. None of this put any kind of social barrier in his way. SHE was completely put out of society, and no decent woman would see, talk, or acknowledge her. What put Dan into the dog house was that he TOOK HER BACK into his home and protection after the trial. He parked her in isolation in his farm in Northern Manhattan and only saw her for a handful of times after that, but the act of taking her back put him socially beyond the pale.

But I digress.

Women, knowing how fragile their "good names" were, tried to avoid any opportunity for a smudge to be put on them. This is why women never travelled alone, avoided army encampments, etc. If a woman walks past several soldiers, and each raises his hat and says "Morning, Ma'am" in the eyes of the watching community, people are going to be asking "why do all those soldiers know her? What has she been doing?" Of course, this is exponentially worse if the soldiers in question are the enemy.

So men were supposed to eye a woman subtly as she approaches. If she makes eye contact or speaks to you, you can do the same -- the onus is on her to initiate the conversation. Period women only did this with men to whom they had been formally introduced, by someone they trusted. Men, in a period time, when you introduced a male friend to a respectable household, you were absolutely vouching for his character. Think of it as sort of like what we would say today if you went to your boss and said "I've got the perfect guy for that opening you're trying to fill." You know if you do that, that your boss has an expectation that you've got a history of knowing the candidate is a good worker, sober, etc. Which is why you might know a number of people looking for a job, but you'd be pretty careful who you recommended to your boss -- because your credibility is on the line based on his behavior.

In our time period, the same was true for introducing someone into a respectable family. Think of it as the same way that people who are serious about Ebay work to build up a good rep and try very hard to avoid bad reports. The issue of your good name was so central in our time period, that if you were travelling, you took "letters of introduction" from friends of yours to specific families in the areas where you were travelling. Without them, you would never be allowed into their society. Fanny Trollope, the mother of the author Anthony Trollope, traveled from England to America in the 1820s, but without letters of introduction. She lived in and around Cincinnatti for several years, but was completely ignorant of the middle class families there, because she didn't bring letters of introduction, and so they basically lived in separate worlds. BTW if you want a really interesting book, read "Domestic Manners of the Americans" (1827) the book she wrote after she returned from several years of living in Ohio, a couple of weeks on an "abolitionist plantation/commune" (I am not making this up) in Tennessee and then travelling through Washington, DC, New York and Niagra Falls. It was an international best seller for 20 years or more, and absolutely enraged Americans.

To give another example, to be employed as an Army laundress, the regs say that you must of a "Letter of Good Conduct" which is just as important as your Army pass to be within the camps. If your conduct causes there to be a question about your character, the officer of your regiment can terminate your employment and have you escorted out of camp at any point.

Set in upper class New York in the 1880s, the DVD "The House of Mirth" tells this same story -- about what happens to a woman who has lost her good name and what happens to her.

There are any number of good etiquette books -- "Martine's Book of Etiquette" springs to mind as a good place to start. I did a search of Google Books for etiquette books published in English between 1850 and 1865 and got over 400 hits. Etiquette books, as Hank and Linda Trent have often pointed out, are also amazing sources of information on what "common" people did (even though it was uncouth in polite society). For example, when they say you shouldn't use your knife to pile things on when eating -- rest assured that's printed because people did it. So these are a great source of little tidbits that you can add to your "uncouth" impression as well as your "well mannered" impression.

If you are escorting a lady, your job is to keep her safe while you are walking with her. This may seem self evident, but there are some extra period hazards you need to be watching. If you are escorting a lady wearing a slat bonnet (these are the ones that make her look like she's got a fabric covered mailbox on her head), you should remember that she has effectively no peripheral vision and she's also got limited vision above her head. As her escort you should be especially vigilant because she can't see tree branches or vines that might get tangled in her bonnet. She also can walk right up and into people, horses, buildings, tree branches, or other obstacles on either side of her. If she's absorbed in your fascinating discussion, especially if she's looking at you, it's your obligation to be watching for these on her behalf. In the past I've been escorted by guys who didn't realize how limited my vision was in my slatt and with the best intentions they didn't move vines or branches out of my way, or neglected to warn me about approaching horses, trees, or other people.

When you escort someone, she walks on your left and if you are walking down a street, you walk between her and traffic. If you approach a gate, or a door, she should hang back a smidge and let you get ahead to open it and hold it for her. Once she's past the obstacle, she should stop and wait for you to close the gate or door, and then you rejoin her.

Offering your arm
There's mixed opinion on this. My understanding is that a woman only takes your arm while being escorted if she is a very near relative (wife, daughter, sister, mother) or your fiancee. There is a reference to a couple who were seriously dating before Lincoln was shot, and when his body was lying in state in Chicago, they went to pay their respects. The crowd got so unruly at one point that he insisted that she take his arm. They were seen and congratulated the next day on their engagement.....

Other people don't agree with this, and you'll read both opinions in etiquette books, so perhaps this is one of those things which was in the process of changing in our time period. You can escort a lady without her taking your arm. I've not seen any documentation of grasping her by the elbow and steering her like a boat.

Hats
This is another sticky wicket. If you meet a woman to whom you have been introduced, and she speaks or nods to you, you lift your hat clear of your head, if you want to be polite. If you are reenacting someone uncouth or rude, you pull on the brim or just touch it with one finger and leave it undisturbed on your head. In terms of when you take it off and hold it, with your head uncovered, I know there is a lot of military protocol, and you need to know that. But if you are portraying a civilian, or are at a totally civilian environment (a dinner party, paying a social call, a formal dance in a ballroom or historic home), your hat should come off when you are inside. I still remember the 720 degree bucktail at a ball in a historic home. This was a very formal ball and dinner in a private home. He had a bucktail that was beyond glorious, it was truely magnificent -- and I swear it wrapped around his hat twice. He was understandably reluctant to part with it, but the Master of Ceremonies finally went up and demanded that he remove it to the cloakroom.

I hope that helps, and I look forward to other's contributions to this thread.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[cap tassel]

Re: Period manners

Karin, around what age did this kick in?

[KarinTimour]

Re: Period manners

Dear Larry:

Did what kick in? Do you mean at what age was the woman when you start tipping your hat to them? Or at what period in history?

Need a little clarification....

Thanks
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[cap tassel]

Re: Period manners

Dear Larry:

Did what kick in? Do you mean at what age was the woman when you start tipping your hat to them? Or at what period in history?

Need a little clarification....

Thanks
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

Yes sorry, what age did these rules go into effect for both men and women? Was it a formal right of passage type thing or a personal thing? For some reason it reminded me of how in Russia when boys start seeing girls differently, you know, they stop using he informal form of 'you' when they talk to them and start using he formal version basically overnight and all on their own. I was wondering if these social rules came about the same way. Thanks by the way!

[KarinTimour]

Re: Period manners

Dear Larry:

Hmm, I don't really know. Ok, thinking this through logically, young ladies weren't to be wandering around on their own. So presumably they'd always be accompanied on the streets by their mother or an older relative. In which case, your key to how to behave would depend on whether you'd been introduced to the relative.

I suspect that for boys and girls in a more rural community who grew up attending the village school together, the more "formal" raising your hat to them would likely begin at the age where courting commences. But in the meantime, if a new belle moves to the district, who you didn't grow up with, you might be on your best behavior from your first formal introduction to her.

Certainly if you were enlisted in the army, you'd be old enough that you'd be expected to be doing this behavior on a regular basis.

One of the things that is also under represented in the hobby is how short a leash girls and women were kept on. It's not unusual to see girls, young women or women walking alone at reenactments. It's my understanding that this was extremely rare in our time period -- if you were a woman or a girl you went nowhere off your home farm unaccompanied. And if someone came to call, or you went to a dance, you had a chaperone, and after each dance you got returned to your chaperone by your dancing partner.

Did that help to clarify or just muddy the waters more?

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldier's Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Poor Private]

Re: Period manners

Ok, now that we have the etiquette part out of the way for the period, this leads to the follow up question.
How can the 2 diverse camps maintstream/ CPH come up with 2 different ways of treating a women?

[KarinTimour]

Re: Period manners

Dear Mr. Westphal:

My understanding of the root of the two different ways is that both are based in respect.

The "history-heavy" side of the hobby takes as it's goal to try to base it's actions on the documentation we have that remains. The documentation is that tipping a hat to a lady and saying "Good Morning, Ma'am" by total strangers would cause her to be seen as less than honorable. Therefore, those who understand this will do this action when they want to cast doubt on her character.

The "mainstream" side of the hobby wants to honor and encourage families to support husbands' reenacting involvement. This is much more likely to happen if wives and family members also enjoy reenacting. For the majority of family members, the goal of reenacting is having a good time with friends, getting out in the woods, dressing up in the clothing, especially the clothing that you feel makes you look the most attractive. And being appreciated for the effort that you've invested.

The families that do the most to further this effort go to the effort of outfitting all members of the family in period clothing. Many of them have put serious research, money and time into their clothing and accoutrements. While there are some single women who have come to reenacting on their own, the majority of women in period dress at a mainstream reenactment are either the driving force encouraging their husband's involvmenet, or are there because he's excited about reencting. If the later, their own involvement can run the spectrum (and it's a wide spectrum) from letting him go to a few events with the unit without her, all the way to researching and putting together clothing and impressions for all the children. In any case, it's in the unit's best interests to support and encourage families to be involved (and thus facilitate the participation of family men). Acknowledging that time, effort and support of the husband and their family's involvement in reenacting can be done in many ways. Recognizing all women in period dress as people who are supporting the hobby (and the involvement of their husbands and boyfriends) is key to helping keep family members happy while reenacting. Tipping one's hat and saying "Good Morning, Ma'am" as you pass is a way of letting the lady know that you acknowledge and thank her for the efforts that she has expended on her impression and those of her family.

Each is a legitimate action, showing respect for women.

And I'll be the first to say that I tailor my expectations and my behavior to the event I'm attending (as well as the impression I'm portraying at that event).

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Joanna Jones]

Re: Period manners

Karin - I am trying to see how this idea of women protecting their reputation played out in daily life, especially among "average" (not poor, not wealthy) folks. If a woman lives in town, and she decides she needs to walk to the dry goods store that is 3 blocks away, or visit the butcher, does she need an escort? Since she probably knows many of the men in her town from her interactions over the years, does that constitute "being introduced" and result in an acknowledgment as she passes him, or a "good morning" with a raised hat on his account? It seems that there were many constraints upon the wealthy that could not have existed among the average, or they would never get any work done! ;)

[Michael Comer]

Re: Period manners

Gee Dave, maybe you are forgettin' where you come from. We's Crackers boy. Don't need no manners, just makes you tired. Quit tryin' to put on airs and seem all uppity and such.

[cap tassel]

Re: Period manners

Did that help to clarify or just muddy the waters more?

That helped a lot. :D I love stuff like this. It's fascinating.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Period manners

Dear Joanna:

You wrote:

I am trying to see how this idea of women protecting their reputation played out in daily life, especially among "average" (not poor, not wealthy) folks. If a woman lives in town, and she decides she needs to walk to the dry goods store that is 3 blocks away, or visit the butcher, does she need an escort? Since she probably knows many of the men in her town from her interactions over the years, does that constitute "being introduced" and result in an acknowledgment as she passes him, or a "good morning" with a raised hat on his account? It seems that there were many constraints upon the wealthy that could not have existed among the average, or they would never get any work done!

Well, let's think about this for a minute.

What shopping needs to happen? In our time period people in small towns and cities often raised their own produce, or sent an order to the local grocer and had it delivered. Or sent servants. The butcher often got a written order and sent his "boy" around to deliver. It wasn't at all unusual that your husband did the shopping in town, once a month or once a week, with a list you sent with him.

If she's single, she's living with her parents and isn't going to be going to the store without her mother, sister or brother. If she's married, she might well take a hired girl with her.

I'm sure the trades people would be considered "knowing you" as well as the people in the town who were your social equals. But what about people who weren't in your social circle, or who didn't speak your language or were new in town? You probably just kept walking and didn't stop to introduce yourself unless someone you knew and trusted introduced you.

Some of the references I've seen to this applied in small town life were:

a. A middle class woman would never go into a bar, tavern or saloon. If she had to communicate with someone in the said establishment, she'd send in a boy child, a servant or someone else.

b. Women didn't go into barbershops, and avoided livery stables, railroad depots, pool halls and other locales where men were likely to be talking "men's talk."

c. If you had to go past such establishments, you either crossed the street or sped past, eyes front.

d. If you had to go downtown where the stores were, you went down, did what you had to do and headed straight home, no loitering. The idea of a woman "shopping" alone didn't really come into parlance until the invention of the department store, and my understanding is that the first of these was A.T. Stewart's Marble Palace in New York. In order to make it respectable for women to be loitering in stores, he hired saleswomen, rather than salesmen, and had open windows on the first floor, so that you could easily see inside (and be seen from outside).

e. In most towns there were certain areas where you weren't to be seen, ever, and others where you could be seen only if you had legitimate business, and even then it was best not to linger.

g. Most people got their fabric at the general store, where they went on a once a month basis -- it was only in the really larger cities that you had stores that just stocked fabric or ribbon.

Just a few examples in passing.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Mcguire]

Re: Period manners

Gee Dave, maybe you are forgettin' where you come from. We's Crackers boy. Don't need no manners, just makes you tired. Quit tryin' to put on airs and seem all uppity and such.

Oops! I guess thars no gittin around it. You can take the boy out of the Cracker Mess but ya can't take the Cracker outta the boy. Thanks fer puttin me in ma place.

[10TnVI]

Re: Period manners

Just for a little fun counterpoint- from the letters of Samuel M . Alexander of the 9th Iowa

dated Oct. 8, 1861, the unit still near home in training camp

"I have more fun with the girls that come into camp than a little. I don't care a darn what I say to them"