Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

[billywebb]

Which cartridge box, etc. is correct for the .69 cal. Rifled model 1842 Springfield for a Union impression? Is it correct to wear the same accoutrements for the '55 or '61 Springfield?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Hallo Kamerad!

IMHO, short of documentation for a particular unit, time, and place- there is no exact answer to that question...

In brief, depending upon the unit, and time and place, it could conceivably be the older Pattern of 1839 .69 box, the .69 Elongated Ball Cartridge Pattern of 3 March 1857 box, the .69 Elongated Ball Cartridge Pattern of 1861 box, or even the .69 Elongated Ball Cartridge Pattern of July 1864 box.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[markj]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Hi,

Here's something to think about:

Check with the Minnesota State Archives to see if there is any surviving documentation regarding issues of arms/accoutrements to units raised in that state. Depending on what is available, this may answer your question. Here in Indiana, we have the "Indiana State Armorer's Books" covering 1861-1863 and the descriptions of issued items are, in many cases, good enough to determine precisely (or at least within a reasonable doubt) what was handed out. This info is even broken down to the company level.

Incidentally, unless you've seen something to the contrary, I would suggest you avoid using the term "leathers." Not once have I ever seen this term used in either contemporary missives or documents when referring to infantry equipage: It's almost invariably "accoutrements" or "accouterments."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[billywebb]

Re: Correct accoutrements for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

The unit is the First Minnesota, Army of the Potomac. As far as I know, in April-May 1861 the First Minnesota was armed at Fort Snelling with weapons supplied from the local militia arsenals. There were only enough of the .58 caliber Springfield rifles to arm three companies, and the remaining companies received the .69 caliber rifled muskets. I don't know if these companies carried the .69 caliber rifled muskets through the entire war or not, but they were issued them at the outset.

[billywebb]

Re: Correct accoutrements for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Mr. Jaeger - thanks for the suggestion and I have edited out "leathers" from my original posts.

[1842musket]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Mr. Webb,
Check out www.missouribootandshoe.com. Bob Serio makes a full line of US accoutrements including the pattern Boxes referred to above. Personally, I own an original 69 cal. rifle musket and I typically use it with an 1857 pattern 69 cal. Elongated (Minie) Ball Cartridge Box. This was the Box designed for this type of weapon and was in production from 1857 to 1861 when the 61 pattern changes (rivits in the belt loops) went into effect.
In addition, I would suggest Waxed (rough side out) leather Cartridge Box sling and waist belt with loop keeper (waxed leather belts were the most common until the Ordnance Dept. required exclusive use of Grain (smooth out ) leather in Sept. of 1862). The standard US Cap Pouch prior to Aug. of 1862 was required to have a small "US" stamped into the flap with no rivits in the belt loops (this is a post Aug. of 62 feature), so I would suggest this type of Cap Pouch for an early War Federal impression. Also, a 2 rivit Bayonet scabbard with waxed leather frog. Based on what I have learned, these accoutrements would be appropriate into early 1863 when the Grain leather belts and patterns with rivited belt loops were in widespread issuance.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Larry McIrvin

[billywebb]

Re: Correct accoutrements for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Mr. McIrvin - thank you for the link and suggestions! I will take all of them under consideration.

I may be veering off the topic here, but when a regiment was outfitted say in 1861, were those weapons and accoutrements carried thorughout their service (i.e. for the duration)? Or were they updated as new models were issued?

[NY Pvt]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Mr. Webb,

This is about how long equipment lasted in Co I 150th NY from mid 63- to the end of the war. Notice how long the weapons lasted. Of course, this was on average. Remember there are also many accounts of units picking up better weapons and throwing away their out-dated weapons.

Type of Equipment
How long it lasted in the field
Comments

Rifle
8 ½ months
¾ of those issued were Enfield’s and ¼ were Springfield’s; 49 Enfield’s were issued on June 30, 1863 in Frederick, Md.

Scabbards
8 ½ months

Cap Pouch
8 ½ months

Cartridge Box
8 ½ months

Cartridge Box Plate
7 ½ months
Issued in June, August, December 1863, January, February, July, September, October, December, 1864, January, April, 1865.

Cartridge Box Belt
8 months

Cartridge Box Belt Plate
6 ½ months
Issued in June, August, 1863, January, February, July, September, October, December, 1864, January, April, 1865.

Gun Sling
7 ½ months

Waist Belt
8 ½ months

Waist Belt Plate
8 ½ months

Bayonet Frog
Only 1 ever issued

Tompion
Only 15 ever issued

Forage Caps
14 ½ months
Issued in August, October, November, December 1863, February, April, September, November, 1864, January, April, May, 1865.

Blouses /

Flannel Sack Coat



11 months

Trousers, Infantry /

Trousers, Cavalry



6 months
All were infantry trousers until July 25, 1864. Of the 16 pair of cavalry trousers, 11 were issued on January 25, 1865

Shirts / Knit Shirts / Flannel Shirts



4 months
38 flannel shirts were issued between July 31, 1863 – Sep 30, 1863, and 40 more were issued on January 25, 1865. 24 knit shirts were issued on October 31, 1863, and then 30 more on April 25, 1865 and 24 on May 31, 1865.

Drawers
6 months

Booties / Shoes / Boots / Boots Cavalry



3 ½ months
I am assuming shoes and booties are used interchangeably.

One pair of boots shows up on November 30, 1863 and 26 on December 31, 1863. 12 pair of cavalry boots were listed on February 29, 1864 and 12 more with the description “Sewed” were listed on January 25, 1865. The ratio of boots to booties was 18% boots to 82% booties

Stocking
3 months

Great Coats
41 were issued. That leaves 15 soldiers without.

Blankets
57 were issued.

Rubber Blankets / Rubber Poncho’s / Painted Blankets



9 ½ months
There was a 50 – 50 split between blankets vs. poncho’s.

13 “Painted Blankets” were issued on August 19, 1864.

Knapsacks
9 months
Issued in June, August, December 1863, January, February, September, November, December, 1864, January, April, May, 1865.

Haversacks
8 months

Canteens
7 ½ months

Shelter Tents
7 ½ months

Red Stars
10 months
These were first issued September 30, 1863 and continued to be issued through January 25, 1865.

[ley74]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Heir Curt:

I do not have by research books in front of me as I am on the road. Weren't the '42 rifled musket issued in very small numbers?

I hate to impose.

Thank you,

[NY Pvt]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Between 1856 and 1859 the U.S. Government modified 14,182 Model 1842 smoothbore muskets. However, only 10,000 were fitted with rear sights.

Meanwhile, Harpers ferry produced 103,000 M1842's and Springfield produced 172,000, for a grand total of 275,000 M1842 's produced. So if only 14,182 were rifled that is .052 or a little more then 5% of the original number of M1842's were ever rifled. While 14,182 rifled muskets are a lot, it wasn't that many in the whole grand scheme of things.

[1842musket]

Re: Correct leathers for the '42 Rifled Springfield?

Dane,
Thanks for all the documentation on the lengths of time the various articles lasted.
While it is true that relatively few model 1842 muskets were altered to rifle-muskets, let's not forget the thousands of model 1816/22 and 1840 muskets that were also converted to rifle-muskets. I do not have my copy of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms in front of me, but there were thousands of these in the arsenals, and some gunmakers (Justice in Philadelphia comes to mind) made modest quantities of brand new 69 cal rifle-muskets that were issued to early volunteers.
Paul Johnson's invaluable book on US cartridge boxes is a must read. It is interesting to note that the pattern of 1857 69 cal. roundball cartridge boxes (for use with smoothbore muskets) ceased being produced by the arsenals and contractors in Feb. 1862. The 69 cal. rifle-musket box was produced exclusively after this and was many times issued to troops who had 69 cal. smoothbore muskets despite being designed for round/buck and ball ammunition. The Ordnance dept. made this decision, in part, due to the large quantity of converted 69 cal. rifle-muskets as well as the fact that the roundball ammo fit in the boxes as easily as the conical bullets.
I just thought this info would be of interest.
Cheers,
Larry McIrvin