De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

[Big Roy]

Greetings.

I see that Blockade Runner has a defarbed bayonet to fit the Armisport or Euroarms Enfield. I have called the folks there asking them the country of origin of the bayonet. What I don't want to do is purchase another India made bayonet.

Does anyone know anything about these bayonets?

Thanks.

Big Roy

[mslaird]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I am curious about the answer to Big Roy's question as well.

I would like to tag my own questions onto this thread. In what country does the repro "big knife" bayonets for the Mississippi Rifles originate? Is there a best reproduction variety to purchase, similar in fasion to the Italian spring steel 42 bayonets?

[Craig L Barry]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I can solve this mystery. It is the same India-made steel bayonet. The changes are cosmetic ie: blued socket, correct maker, inspection stamps and it is fit to your Euro or Armi-Sport musket. Otherwise it is the same repro steel bayonet. Todd Watts is doing them based on my original P-53 B'ham contractor bayonet that fits one of my Enfields. It is marked SALTER (the maker) and BSAT.

[Johan Steele]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

The M1841 bayonets sold by Dixie & Fall Crik are also the Indian jobs. Point of warning if purchasing one expect to have to purchase the barrel ring seperately from Lodgewood or Dixie as the last three I have seen sold from Fall Creek are mishapen and will not fit around any barrel; I haven't seen one from Dixie so don't know but I was told they were Indian. I tried reheating the band to reshape it... don't waste your effort, the interior dimensions when put to round were WAY too big , most of a .25 inch off. That said, I am content w/ the quality of the Indian; it's no original but looks close enough and hasn't bent all out of shape w/ my looking at it yet and I've used it as originally intended... hack brush, slice meat & to dig a hole.

THe only other choice is an original... last I saw in good shape was a Colt w/ a $700 price tag.

[Jimmayo]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

The M1841 bayonets sold by Dixie & Fall Crik are also the Indian jobs. Point of warning if purchasing one expect to have to purchase the barrel ring seperately from Lodgewood or Dixie as the last three I have seen sold from Fall Creek are mishapen and will not fit around any barrel; I haven't seen one from Dixie so don't know but I was told they were Indian. I tried reheating the band to reshape it... don't waste your effort, the interior dimensions when put to round were WAY too big , most of a .25 inch off. That said, I am content w/ the quality of the Indian; it's no original but looks close enough and hasn't bent all out of shape w/ my looking at it yet and I've used it as originally intended... hack brush, slice meat & to dig a hole.

THe only other choice is an original... last I saw in good shape was a Colt w/ a $700 price tag.

I don't know how we lept from Enfields to Mississippis but since you brought it up I will tell what I found on the Dixie bayonet adapter.

I can vouch for Dixie's that the barrel fit is marginally OK. It is the welding that attaches the lug to the ring that causes you to throw it away. I had two adapters and both broke the first time I was fixing the bayonet. The lug could have been attached better with super glue. I went through the adapter experience about 5 years ago but I doubt they have improved since then. I solved my problem by having Zimmerman weld a lug on the barrel.

Also all the 55 sword bayonet repro weighs considerably more than an original as well as being a biggie size. If I remember correctly I either had one from Dixie or Legendary Arms.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Hallo!

Just a caveat about a caveat... There appears to even be a "tier' to Indian-made bayonets- meaning of the Worse, some are "worser" than others.
And it can be a pain to actually sort out, or buy, the "best of the worst'.

Two years ago I received an Indian-made imported sabre bayonet with a used EuroArms 'M1841 that I think was a cheaper Indian copy of a cheap Indian copy.

Curt

[Johan Steele]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Mr Mayo I was passing on a little info in response to Mr Laird. My own experiance has been in the Colt Conversion of the M1841. I was lucky enough to handle an original Colt Conversion bayonet at a relic show and I would agree about the weight difference being dramatic & IIRC the width of the blade was off as well. My ring came out of Lodgewood and all I had to do was file the lug to fit the bayonet.

As to Indian arms and the varying quality; I cannot agree w/ Mr Schmidt more. I think w/ Indian repops it is a case of the least worst. That said I've seen a couple Indian bits that were far from junk and the Indian arms companies are capable of making high quality arms... when it's worth their while.

Is anyone doing authentic Enfield bayonets of spring steel like the originals? At one time I know there were Springfield bayonets in spring steel available but are there any modern makers for an authentic Enfield bayonet?

[J.H.Berger]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I had the chance to compare their defarbed bayonet with an original in my collection 5 months ago. To my surprise I have to say it is really very close to it in dimensions etc, except it being not that well in the finish but that was really minor. Absolutely not to compare with the usual Indian made bayonets. I even had the feeling that the blade was made of carbon steel not mild steel as my file slid over the blade without taking off material easily as woud have been the case with mild steel/iron.
The locking ring is solid not pressed, it has a stamp on the blade and even the fullers of the blade are very close to the original. Also the point of the blade and the overall length. The "knee" is thick and rather short like the original not the thin and long one as seen on Springfield muskets bayonets.
All in al I really can recommend it if you want to get a repro that is the best one you can get. I haven't tried it in the field ( pitching my tent with it) as I have bought it for a friend but I really think it is the best repro available for the Enfield.
Even the British scabbard delivered with it was much better than everything I have seen so far. The brass parts were attached with brads, the leather looked ok although waterbuffaloe and not cowhide.
A tag on the bayonet "Made in India" told where it came from.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

As Curt points out, there are "less worse" India made bayonets, and not all are the same. The BR's story on it is that they set out to have a "better" steel bayonet made, marked and blued like the originals...but also to fit your reproduction. I can only say that being in possession of the original that was copied, it is not quite the same to my eye. That is not to say it is not "better" than the other repros...it could be. It is heavier than my original for one thing, like all the repros are.

I just wouldn't let the availability of this bayonet slow me down while I looked for a decent original bayonet that fit my musket.

[mslaird]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I must apologize to Big Roy for highjacking part of his thread.

Mr. Mayo, Mr. Steele's response was my fault.

Mr. Steele, thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate it.

Thanks to all of those who posted, it has been very informative and I got the answers I needed.

[Jimmayo]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Mr. Mayo, Mr. Steele's response was my fault.

Hey, no problem. I can jump to another log in the river as fast as anybody. I just missed reading your post about the big knife bayonets.

So this post on enfield bayonets won't go to waste, I am posting a couple of pictures of a P-53 bayonet with blueing still on. You just don't see many like this. The bayonet was filthy when I received it so I have wiped it off a bit so I won't get my hands dirty when I handle it. The other picture is the CS scabbard it was in. The lead finial fell out of the sheath. Someone bought the scabbard and bayonet together and did not want the bayonet so I bought it. Which I could afford the scabbard also. The set came out of North Carolina.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Hallo!

As the Better of the Bad, I use old Italian Enfield bayonets from the late 1980's, with the locking ring replaced with an original (and the socket and elbow blued).

I am out of the Loop. Are there "Italian" bayonets anymore, or are they all Indian or Pakistani?

(Just an aside... ideally, if your "Enfield" is struck bright, the bayonet should be too.)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Armi Sport offers spring steel bayonets for their US 1861 and US 1842 repros that are in the $90-$100 range, but very good reproductions, a good alternative if an acceptable original cannot be located. Ironically, they do not offer an Enfield bayonet. Euroarms does not offer any kind of bayonet, as impervious to the end use of their products as they are.

There are some India made bayonets that are better than others. Most are garbage. Regimental Quartermaster is going to be doing the same kind of "de-farbed" Enfield bayonet to offer with their de-farbed JRA muskets. They also copied one that was BSAT marked.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Hallo!

Thanks...

So the Italian Enfield bayonets "for" the 1980's EuroArms Enfields are rare unusual "Collector's Items."

;)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

They are now.