De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

[mslaird]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Isn't it great how that works. It reminds me of the Parker Hale Enfields from yesteryear.

It is too bad they don't make them out of spring steel. The 1842 bayonets made in Italy are pretty nice, as repros go. I have only heard of a problem with one of them and it was a real wierd weld break in the elbow of the piece.

I just wish an Enfield would work for my impressions because I would be right in line for one of Todd's, bayonet as well of course. Of all the rifled muskets, the enfield is my favorite, followed by the 1855 Type III.

[JustRob]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

You don't need to purchase a $700 Enfield bayonet.

I have purchased two original Enfield bayonets over the past five years, including one with an original scabbard, for under $135.

Enfields were ubiquitous in the British Empire. Take a look north to Canada and see their militaria market.

I've had the best luck with John Denner Co. In fact, he has two for sale right now for around $120 each.

The best part, that price is in Canadian dollars. (Granted it was a better deal a few years ago)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Hallo!

Yes, as with M1861 and M1842 bayonets, the "being in the right place at the right time" is the best way to go as one can still, sometimes, find folks selling non-rusty, non-pitted, non-beat originals for what the repro's go for (and on Happy Daze, less..).

But, IMHO it also requires some luck in that typically the Italian reproduction barrels are larger than the original bayonet and will not usually fit (without socket I.D. work).
This is particualry true for the P1853 Enfield, doubly so for the BSAT made Enfields that were not standardized. HOWEVER, sometimes the lack of standardization works to our advantage because the "larger end" of the range starts to get closer to the "Italains."

(And if it matters to one's Mental Picture, sometimes the original P1853 bayonets come with British army markings at the best, and at the worst a variety of "colonial" markings in say Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, Pashto, Farsi, etc.)

And watch out for Martini-Henry socket bayonets being sold as P1853. My first CW original purchase, form a Gettysburg sutler, was sold to me the Newbie as an "Enfield" bayonet when it was actually a Martini-Henry.. (Kind of a U.S. M1855 versus M1873 bayonet concept...)

Curt

[BrianHicks]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I was fortunate enough to acquire an original 1853 Enfield Bayonet, that had been sleeved for a martini-Henry. It took a little work, but we were finally able to remove the sleeved insert, and revert it back to a great fit on my repro Enfield.

I have since then purchased an original Springfield bayonet that fits my repro '61 Springfield.

While seeking a great de-farbed repro bayonet, don't discount the possibility of coming across a great conditioned original that just might fit y0ur repro rifle, and be at a reasonable cost.

Tim Prince, of CollegeHill Arsenal is a great source for Bayonets.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Yes the Parker Hale analogy is a good one. We are a nostalgic bunch for the most part, though I doubt there will be much more than ennui for the "heyday of the Italian-made repro Enfield" or the India mild steel bayonet. I have asked, but never received a satisfactory answer to why Armi Sport would produce only one rifle-musket (US 1861) bayonet when their P-53 Enfield model outsells their US 1861 by such a large margin? It seems counter-intuitive to any kind of sensible business plan.

Phil McBride had a chance to visit with Mr Chiappa at the Armi Sport factory in Italy, and there will be an upcoming CCG article on their interview along with his first hand observations of the factory.

At this time, an "original" bayonet is "the best possible solution" followed at a distance by a better quality de-farbed reproduction. There are still plenty of original bayonets available that can be used with the repro P-53, and as Brian points out, not that much more expensive if at all. I got both my BSAT (Salter) and my Wilkinson bayonet off ebay for not more than $75 + shipping. I don't feel that is too much to spend for the improvement in historical detail over the repros. You can pay more, but you don't have to if your eyes work.

[Dan Munson]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Gents, while we are on the subject of Enfield bayonets, this is probably a good place for me to inquire the original P-53 bayonet I just bought. I believe this thing is something which never saw service on American shores, but it was a fantastic shape, so I couldn't resist it ($169). By luck or happenstance, it fits my Euroarms P-53 "to a tee" and so will become the last step in my de-farb project. Anyway...

...I could use some help identifying the markings, or what's left of them. On the flat of the blade are the remaining letters:

_____ESTON
_______ESTER

Would anyone be able to help me "fill in the blanks" here? (If by some chance the lower string of letters once read "MANCHESTER," it would be a nice coincidence, as that was the birth city of my maternal grandmother.)

Slightly further up the flat, and at right angles to the maker markings, is what looks like the remainder of the "crown" and inspector's markings.
(Crown?)
B (could be an "E")
54

I may be mistaken, but a "crown" stamped bayonet would not be appropriate for a Civil War service Enfield bayonet, would it? If not, I am very torn about further de-facing that marking (it's so faint you need bright light and real good eyes to even make it out).

Any assistance, advice or commentary would be appreciated. Incidentally, I can't make out any remnants of bluing on the socket...which works for me since my Enfield is one of those infernal "bright" ones.

[Jimmayo]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Try this site and see if it helps. It does not go back to the 1860s with much information but it may come in handy sometime if you collect more recent items.

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/brit_bayo.html

[LeatherHead]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

I have an interest in Civil War-era English military items and recall seeing Pattern 1853 Rifle-Musket socket bayonets with a maker's stamp "Preston/ Manchester" with and without the crown/letter/number denoting government inspection.

Hope that helps.....

Sincerely,
Dean Nelson, 1st MD Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[Dan Munson]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Jim - thanks for the web site link. I think there are a few useful bits of info there as pertains to P-53 bayonets.

Dean - Thanks very much! "PRESTON/MANCHESTER" would seem to fit the bill. I'll run with that unless someone has authoritative info to the contrary.

This bayonet definitely has the inspector's markings (albeit partially obliterated) which I indicated above. I think I read a source (Geoff Walden?) which indicated that British government acceptance markings should never (almost never?) be found on Civil War service Enfield bayonets. But I will confess to be loath to grind off what's left of that marking. Unless it's going to brand me as a horrible farb, I think I'll just leave that marking be.

[Todd Watts]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Regarding the bayonets' place of origin, the ones The Blockade Runner carry are made in India. They have 2 sizes for some reason. The ones that are very close to original sizes as far as length and the crook/neck, they are really small in the socket dept. I have to fit these to the guns when I de-farb them. This takes a lot of Dremel work, especially when trying to fit them to that log of a barrel the Euro's have. But once done, they are very good. The other size they get in are longer than originals by about 1/2" and have a very wide crook/neck. These require little if any fitting to slip them onto any repro barrels. The downside to them is that they are so huge in the socket dept. that they flop around on the barrel making for a loud vibration-rich march.:baring_te A trick I found to solve that irritant was to place several stips of black electrician's tape in the socket. This dampens the vibration as it flops, and reduces the diameter so there is not as much flopping. When ordering one from BRI, I do suggest requesting the "smaller" sized Enfield bayo with the de-farb marks. Their smaller sized one comes with a correct stamp already on it, although not correct for Civil War use from what I have been told. (E/crown/25) These require interior grinding to get right, so if you are looking for a good one to fit easily, order one that I've de-farbbed (correct "BSAT mark and blued) and fitted to your gun. They try to keep several pre-fitted to Euroarms and Armi-Sport in stock. Those that fit the Euroarms also typically fir the Armi-Sports, but will be a little sloppy on the Armi due to a smaller barrel diameter.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

Hallo!

I believe the "inspector stamp" coding was something like this...
The letter typically identified the viewing centers of "E" for Enfield (Enfied Lock), "B" for Birmingham, "L" for Liege, and "A" for the rare America.
The number identified the inspector.

Curt

[Todd Watts]

Re: De-Farbed Enfield Bayonet

That is correct I believe. From what a couple of experts (Msrs. Barry and Prince) have told me, the "E" was probably not sent to America for the Civil War. The "B" or "L" versions did come in though, but I don't know how common they were.