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Don't have my Hardee's in front of me...loaned it out a while back and haven't gotten it back yet. And when I had it, this never occurred to me. Might not be in there anyhow, but perhaps somebody can help. Wanting to get some of this stuff lined out before the season starts. Question--when a company forms, and the command 'right dress' is given and has been carried out, would it be correct for the NCO forming the company NOT to give the command to 'front' at that point, but instead to leave the men facing to their right, each man facing forward only when he sounds off? I ask because in my outfit, somehow, even though all our other drill always looks good, this is something where we always manage to screw it up. And being something that requires yelling, everyone nearby knows when you do it more than once for some reason. Sucks. Thought this might take care of the problem. I figured that this way, everybody's lookin' at the man to his right, so he d__n well KNOWS when it's time for him to sound off and has no excuse for lousin' it up. Either he wasn't at the proper 'right dress' position because he was beatin' his gums with his buddy, or he was just daydreaming, or whatever, but NCO can justifiably have a good ol' time dining on his posterior. I'd wondered that for some time, but never said anything, until if finally occurred to ask on here if such a thing would be acceptable practice when forming.
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Micah Hawkins
Popskull Mess -
Re: In each rank, count...
Micah,
The manuals are available on-line at http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/Drill.htm
According to Hardee's 1862 ( http://home.att.net/~MrsMajor/1862SotC.htm )...
"4. The company will always be formed in two ranks. The instructor will then cause the files to be numbered, and for this purpose will command:
In each rank-Count Twos.
5. At this command, the men count in each rank, from right to left, pronouncing in a loud and distinct voice, in the same tone, without hurry and without turning the head, one, two, according to the place which each one occupies."
The link for Gilham's was not working when I accessed the site.
I hope this helps,John Wickett
Former Carpetbagger
Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms) -
Re: In each rank, count...
Taken from Casey's School of the Company, 1862
May be found at
ARTICLE V.
Alignments, and Manual of Arms in Closed Ranks.
30. The ranks being closed, the instructor will cause to be executed parallel and oblique alignments by the right and left, forward and backward, observing to place always two or four files to serve as a basis of alignment. He will give the commands prescribed, No. 21.
31. In alignments in closed ranks, the captain will superintend the front rank, and the covering sergeant the rear rank. They will habituate themselves to judge the alignment by the lines of the eyes and shoulders, in casting a glance of the eye along the front and rear of the ranks.
32. The moment the captain perceives the greater number of the front rank aligned, be will command FRONT, and rectify afterward, if necessary, the alignment of the other men by the means prescribed in the S. S., No. 329. The. rear rank will conform to the alignment of the front rank, superintended by the covering sergeant.
33. The ranks being steady, the instructor will place himself on the flank to verify their alignment. He will also see that each rear-rank man covers accurately his file leader.
34. In oblique alignments, the instructor will observe what is prescribed No. 24.
35. In all alignments, the file closers will preserve the distance of two paces from the rear rank.
36. The alignments being ended, the instructor will cause to be executed the manual of arms.
37. The instructor, wishing to rest the men, without deranging the alignment, will first cause arms to be supported, or ordered, and then command:[SIZE=2][B]Mark Mason[/B][/SIZE] :cool:
[SIZE=2][I]Tar Water Mess[/I][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][I]GHTI[/I][/SIZE]
[URL]http://http://www.ghti.homestead.com/[/URL]Comment
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Re: In each rank, count...
Exactly what I had in mind. I was hoping it was in Hardee's so we could do it. I'm going to make sure our 1st Sgt. knows about it. Thanks guys.Micah Hawkins
Popskull MessComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
"5. At this command, the men count in each rank, from right to left, pronouncing in a loud and distinct voice, in the same tone, without hurry and without turning the head, one, two, according to the place which each one occupies."
I may be just an illiterate bumpkin, but this paragraph seems to imply that you don't look to your right when counting off.Comment
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Re: In each rank, count...
Ah, poop. I read 'without' as 'while' or something, I suppose.Micah Hawkins
Popskull MessComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
This does not mean yelling and screaming your number for the whole field to hear either.Pronouncing in a loud and distinct voice, in the same tone, without hurry and without turning the head.
It's unnecessary to scream out your number in line, but I often hear units in the field who do. It cracks me up....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Aaron Schwieterman
CincinnatiComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
To clarify...Heads are turned to the left to align oneself upon the person to the their immediate left. When properly aligned, the command "FRONT" is then given.[SIZE=2][B]Mark Mason[/B][/SIZE] :cool:
[SIZE=2][I]Tar Water Mess[/I][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][I]GHTI[/I][/SIZE]
[URL]http://http://www.ghti.homestead.com/[/URL]Comment
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Re: In each rank, count...
Definitely gonna keep all this in mind. Especially 'say it don't spray it'. The intrepid men of Company K are, indeed, rather vocal when sounding off.Micah Hawkins
Popskull MessComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
When counting off, I always yell "three" when it comes to be my turn. That always gets a laugh.
I also like to yell "comin' over" when firing from the rear rank and "Which one's Will" when the officer says "fire at will." Hilarity inevitably ensues.
Feel free to try them out boys. They are always a scream at reenactments.
(Author's note: All the above is a joke.)
Seriously, read the manual. Most of the answers are in there in convenient written form. ;^)John StillwagonComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
And on a more serious note:Originally posted by Yellowhammer
ALWAYS be sure to yell 'End of File' if you are the last one to count...
(Still scratching my head over the source of THAT one...)Comment
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Re: In each rank, count...
And of course you wanna make sure and perform your right face 'without doubling'.Micah Hawkins
Popskull MessComment
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Re: In each rank, count...
I posted this the other day and it got lost in some sort of hiccup.
All the information about falling in and dressing is contained in Casey's, just not in one paragraph as in Gilham's. Casey structured his manual to contain all the building blocks of individual drill, company then battalion drill needed for the instructor to pass on.
INFANTRY TACTICS.
TITLE I.
ARTICLE I. FORMATION OF INFANTRY IN ORDER OF BATTLE.
15. The formation of a regiment is in two ranks; and each company will be formed into two ranks, in the following manner: the corporals will be posted in the front rank, and on the right and left of platoons, according to height; the tallest corporal and the tallest man will form the first file, the next two tallest men will form the second file, and so on to the last file, which will be composed of the shortest corporal and the shortest man.
TITLE III.
SCHOOL OF THE COMPANY.
General Rules and Division of the School of the
Company.
4. The company will always be formed in two ranks. The men will take their places in ranks as prescribed in No. 15 Title I., and without any preliminary formation. The instructor will then cause the files to be numbered, and for this purpose will command:
In each rank- Count Twos.
5. At this command, the men count in each rank, from right to left, pronouncing in a loud and distinct voice, in the same tone, without hurry and without turning the head, one, two, according to the place which each one occupies. He will also cause the company to be divided into platoons and sections, taking care that the first platoon is always composed of an even number of files.
(Ok, when we fall in, we do so in one rank, then form two from that. Here is how Casey describes doing this.)
FORMATION OF A COMPANY FROM TWO RANKS INTO
SINGLE RANK, AND RECIPROCALLY.
1. In two ranks, form company. 2. Company,
right-FACE. 3. MARCH.
374. At the second command the company will face to the right; the right guide and the man on the right will remain faced to the front.
375. At the command march, the men who have faced to the right, will step off, and form files in the following manner: the second man in the rank will place himself behind the first to form the first file; the third will place himself by the side of the first in the front rank; the fourth behind the third in the rear rank. All the others will, in like manner, place themselves, alternately, in. the front and rear rank, and will thus form files of two men, on the left of those already formed.
376. The formations above described will be habitually executed by the right of companies; but when the instructor shall wish to have them executed by the left, he will face the company about, and post the guides in the rear rank.
So its not outlined neatly "how to fall in and count off" but it is all there for the instructor.
All material copied from
The U.S. Regulars Archive.Fred Grogan
Sykes' RegularsComment
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Gilham has the answer
[/QUOTE]So its not outlined neatly "how to fall in and count off" but it is all there for the instructor.[/QUOTE]
As I, too, noted before the recent hiccup, Gilham's contains the cleanest answer to the original question of falling in and counting two's:
216. THE whole company being assembled on its parade ground, or in the rendezvous, the first, or orderly sergeant, will command:
Fall in - COMPANY.
At this command the corporals and privates will form in one rank,
faced to the right, and in the order of height from right to left, the tallest man on the right (now head of the company), the next tallest man immediately covering the first, and so on to the left or rear of the rank, in which position will be placed the shortest man. The other sergeants will take post in the rank of file-closers, two paces the right of the company, and assist the first sergeant in forming the company. When the men have their places, the first sergeant will command:
FRONT.
The second sergeant, who is the left guide of the company, will now
place himself on the left of the company, and the orderly sergeant will promptly command:
1. In two ranks, form company.
2. Left - FACE.
3. MARCH.
At the command left face, the whole company will face to the left,
except the guide and man on the left, who stand fast.
At the command march, the whole of the men who have faced to left, will step off together; the second man, counting from the left, will place himself in the rear rank, behind the man next to the guide, and face to the front; the two following men will, in like manner, on closing up, form the next file, the third man in the front, and the fourth in the rear rank behind him, and all the other men will come successively to form files, two deep, to the right of those already formed.
The officers will now take their posts as prescribed in No. 8; if the
captain has to discharge the duties of instructor, the first lieutenant will take his place on the right of the front rank, the second lieutenant replacing the first behind the fourth section. The instructor will then cause the files to be
numbered, and for this purpose will command:
In each rank - count TWOS.
At this command the men count in each rank from right to left,
pronouncing in a loud and distinct voice, in the same tone, without hurry and
without turning the head, one, two, according to the place each one occupies. He will also cause the company to be divided into platoons and sections, taking care that the first platoon is always composed of an even number of files.
Wm Gillham, ARTICLE IV
The doubling issue has also been suggested, so I'll also post what the master had to say about it:
237. [ ] The instructor will sometimes exercise the company in facing without doubling, for this purpose he will command:
1. Company, in two ranks, right - 2. FACE.The double quick, however, will never be executed without the ranks being
doubled.Silas Tackitt,
one of the moderators.
Click here for a link to forum rules - or don't at your own peril.Comment
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Re: In each rank, count...
Guys;
They all say where the placement of the corporals should be when its finished and then explain how to form in two ranks and count.
Where does it state how/when the platoon break corporals are placed/moved? Most units I've seen move individuals around after the company is formed in two ranks and then they count. Then again, a lot of companies only have 2 corporals.
This would have been much harder with 80 soldiers and corporals in the line.
Jim PetersonJim Peterson
Rowdy PardsComment
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