Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

[Boy of '61]

Hi all, I’m thinking about attempting to defarb my Armisport Springfield myself, but I had a few questions. First off I know that I should remove all modern makings, but was wondering how to go about doing that and how to place the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. What other things should I do to defarb it and how would I do those things.

Thanks,

Andy

[DannyJoe]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

Andy,
If you don't know how to defarb the M1861, I would highly recommend that you don't attempt it on your own. You could easily ruin your weapon. Please consider giving Lodgewood Manufacturing the defarbing task. It would cost you about $65-$85. You're a Minnesota lad and Lodgewood is located in Wisconsin. I am a former Golden Gopher, but I have learned that the Badgers are okay. Here is the link if you are interested.

https://www.lodgewood.com

Phone: 262 473 5444
Another recommendation is to sell your ArmiSport as is, and buy a defarbed Euroarms 1861 Springfield. Yes, I have defarbed ArmiSport M1861, but recently ordered a Euroarms from James River Armory. IMHO, the Euroarms is a better reproduction.
Regards,

[BarryDusel]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

I agree that the EA 61 is a better product then the AS 61. That said. I bought a JRA Defarb 1861 3 years ago. I've since sold it . For this reason. Once all the excess wood was removed to give the stock a more suitable contour the barrel bands have too much play even too the point that the middle band wouldn't stay behind the spring no matter what. It was just unacceptable to me . Anyway, I don't know if anything has changed on this front , but it's something to be aware of upfront. Anyway, contact JRA if it concerns you. He was very open discussing the wherefores and whys of the "defarbing" the 61.

[58 lorenz]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

Why even bother replacing the serial number? I see so many people that are concerned about this,but I don't see the point. NO original CW rifles ever had serial numbers of any sort. I suppose if you are concerned with being able to identify it,you could scribe your name on the inside of the buttplate. I know that in some places,removing a serial number from a firearm is illegal,but I really don't think they had CW muskets in mind for these laws,and anyway,once it is defarbed,with all the "made in Italy" marks removed,who's to say it ISN'T an original? certainly no one but an expert in CW weapons .

Doug Price

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

Hallo!

Behold the Wonders of the SEARCH feature. ;) :)

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13447&highlight=Monster+Enfield&page=8

Page 8, of the massive "Monster Enfield Defarbing" thread folder deals with removing barrel stampings.
And sprinkled in the 52 pages are a good deal of other oft-asked questions about so-called "defarb" work including stock refinishing. Including the question/debate/hobby myth on federal and state laws not (yet) considering CW reproductions "firearms" requiring serial numbers (but individual local jurisdictions might).

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

It is actually against the law in some states to remove a serial number. Jurisdictions vary on the rules, and if replicas are exempt, etc so find out before you file anything off. One of the reasons for the war was "states rights", so here it is in practice.

As far as which is better, the Armi Sport or the EoA US 1861, how about neither? Both have their shortcomings and depending on what sorts of cosmetic details drive you batty, both need more than work than can easily be accomplished by de-farbing. How do you get rid of two lbs of excess weight in the case of the EoA, for example. James River has the right idea with their US 1861, which is to start with a stock blank and go from there. It is lighter, but still quite heavy. The EoA locks are of course, quite good and will take original parts. At one point JRA was selling their US 1861s with original lock plates rebuilt with EoA parts. Those were nice.

I have a James River de-farbed CS Richmond which is being made into a Whitney US 1855. The "good and serviceable" contract Whitneys were kind of crappy to start with and so is this reproduction, hence there is a good deal of common ground. Some of the same mistakes, in fact. Instead of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, sometimes it is best to work with what you've got.

[Benedict]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

How do you get rid of two lbs of excess weight in the case of the EoA, for example. James River has the right idea with their US 1861, which is to start with a stock blank and go from there. It is lighter, but still quite heavy.

Does anybody know what the difference in weight between the original Euroarms and the defarbed James River Armory 1861 is?

[Rob Murray]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

Andy,

As well as using the search feature, talk to the members of your unit! I'm sure they can help you with any of your questions.

[jim]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

as far as i know the serial number thing is a federal law which means it over rides any local or state law.so i would look into that one a little more before you just remove your numbers.

[marktaylor]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

as far as i know the serial number thing is a federal law which means it over rides any local or state law.so i would look into that one a little more before you just remove your numbers.

The Federal law only addresses post 1898 guns. Pre 1898 guns are considered "non-guns" and threfore are not subject to this.
As stated, local laws may prohibit the act, though.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

1. Like Kentucky where it is illegal to alter serial numbers on any firearm.
2. Also the difference between a JRA defarbed 1861 and the Euroarms is that the JRA uses an American Walnut stock blank which is less dense, 2.8 lbs/board foot. The Euroarms uses a european hardwood variety which is denser, 4.0 lbs/board foot. It is not just that there is less wood,but also that the correct walnut wood is lighter than what the Italians use.
3. JRA uses a Hoyt or Whitacre barrel for their skirmish version, and the stock Euroarms barrel with the modern marking removed for the "re-enactor" grade.
4. You re-locate serial numbers with a die set and hammer. Grind them off the side and stamp the same numbers on the underside. They are not really serial numbers in the sense of any kind of law enforcement record keeping or tracking. Just an indentifer to tell your gun from the other farby weapons in the stack. I have never known a stolen reproduction musket to be recovered and returned via the serial number.

[ndnchf]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

I have a JRA defarbed EoA '61. Its a nice musket and looks pretty good. But it seems extra heavy at the breech end. My Japanese made '63 and Zimmerman defarbed Armisport '42 both feel much lighter. The '61 is nice for living histories. But the '42 is my first choice for the field, except for very late war events where I bring out the '63. It seems like the '61 barrel is thicker at the breech end, adding the extra weight.

Steve Blancard
13th Va. Co A.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

Hallo!

Just a quick aside...

IIRC, JRA offers/offered two "lines" of products. One is the "de-farbed" Italian offerings. And the other is the the "N-SSA-more H/A" type composites mentioned above.

When using the bulked-up Italian commercial barrels, there is no amount of (safe) "defarb" work that can be done to reduce the "bulk" of the breech, the thickness of the barrel walls, and the incorrect taper of the barrel profile.

Curt

[prestontoprail]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

You know, I've never noticed any comparison of the Hoyt/Whitacre barrels compared to the Italian barrels or original barrels for that matter. Would any of you guys who have had experience care to elaborate? Would be nice to know if purchasing a Hoyt/Whitacre barrel would do more for your Italian musket than simply make it stronger and more accurate for live fire.

[David Fox]

Re: Defarbing A 1861 Springfield

"...with all the 'made in Italy' marks removed who's to say it isn't original. Certainly no one but an expert in CW weapons." Hummm. It takes a tad more than just lipstick to change a sweathog into a queen. I'd swan a chance of folks just moderately initiated into the arcane world of Civil War weaponry could readily smell an Italian ringer which merely has the marks removed. None of these Italian arms are reproductions. At best they are moderately accurate replicas. I believe Hoyt and Whitacre produce fat drop-in barrels for portly replicas and slim barrels to drop in original stocks. I confess I'm only familiar with their barrel liners. Yeck, I know, produced barrels years ago (before replicas hit the market) which mimicked original contours. And, for the pard whose barrel bands are loose after a defarbing, there are several ways to address the situation. Shimming the bands works for me with original muskets whose stocks have shrunk. Replacement bands designed to fit original muskets might well work. And the the existing bands can be tightened for a snug fit by a competent person. In this hobby, by the bye, "competent persons" are worth their weight in gold.