M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

[LJPerreira]

I came across references to this rifle by accident, and I'm now intrigued. I havent been able to find too much info so I'll try here. I've noticed that even though the "title" of this rifle states that it is an 1861 rifle, the rifles Ive found that the ones ive seen are stamped 1864. When was this rifle "officially" used? Is this the rifle that naval infantry should be using for their impression, and if not, which rifle would be best (especially since I cant find anyone who reproduces this rifle)? My brother and I are attempting to start a Navy and Marine Corps landing party reenacting club and he's going to portray a sailor, but he's a stickler for authenticity.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

Hallo!

In U.S. usage the "model" is generally the year it was adopted for use. The "model" generally remains the same even though the years of production as found on the lockplate and barrels "go on.")
The .69 Whitney Model 1861 Navy Rifle (aka "Plymouth" rifle) was made under a July 15, 1861 contract for 10,000 arms. But due to production problems, the first shipment did not go out until February 1863 (excluding some sample pieces in 1862). By June of 1864, all 10,000 were delivered.

There are no commercial reproductions of the M1861 Whitney Navy Rifle, although a custom-built turns up every once in a while (a friend "built" two).

In brief and to over-generalize... it was one of several rifles/carbines used by the U.S. Navy some designated "Navy" and some not. For example, rifles and carbiines by Sharps, Sharps & Hankins, Spencer, and Jenks .
But the Navy/Marines used other weapons other than just those carrying a "Navy" in their name.

IMHO, go with what your research and documentation shows are being used by the unit or landing party or particular ship or vessel.

Curt

[sigsaye]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

The '61 Plymount was acepted foruse in 1861. Compared to other shoulder fired weapons of the era, it was made in relatively small numbers. There is a book, "Civil Wr SMall Arms of the Navy and Marines" which covers all the details of the weapons used by those two services. The book also has partial lists of the small arms carried by individual vessals at specific times.

The thing to remember about Naval small arms is that the Navy was not in the business of land warfare. They were involved in it constantly to be sure, but that was not the main focus. While the Navy did attempt to develop Naval pattern equipment and weapons, it was never able to develop sufficent numbers and relied on literally Army Surplus. As you read the lists of small arms carried on individual ships, you see they all caried a mixed bag of whateve they could find ('61 Plymouths being particularly rare abouard Naval vessels even at the time of the wae). It was common for ships to carry a mix of Springfields, Enfields, (of various calibers and lengths), Sharps, misc. other forgin weapons, carbines and shotguns. Basically, what ever was available when the ship was fitting out. As weapons were lost, broken or worn out, they would be replaced with what ever was again, available. It was quite common for Federal Sailors to be armed with captured CS weapons and equipment. In the River fleets, cutlass' were almost unheard of. The majority of edged weapons were Army 1832 artillery sabers or cavelry sabers. But for a Landing Party impression, this in irrevelant as edged weapons were not acrried by Sailors armed as infantry. Swords and pistols were only carried by those Sailors assigned to row boats or manning artillery. And then not always.

The most badley represented impression in the hobby is the Sailor. For some reason, reenactors think that Sailors of the Civil War wore white uniforms in the summer. This is infact incorrect. The white uniforms were only worn for "Dress Occassions". Blue was the daily working uniform of the Navy. The reason reenactors get this wrong is that they again think every thing blue is wool. Again, research shows this to be incorrect. Sailors uniforms that they wore for work were made of the wook flannel of the US fatigue blouse (sack coat), or Blue denim or blue cotton drill. Denim and drill uniforms were worn by Sailors in Southern waters due to the heat (they figured it out even back then). Also, since most Sailor clothing had to be made by the Sailor himself, Cotton drill and denim were easy to get and durable. Perfect for the life style of a Sailor.

To be sure, a Sailor would also have a nice set of blues made of satinette or some other woolen fabric for inspections, and a set of whites for the same reason, but for every day working and for landing party assignments, he would be wearing a set of plain working blues. They were cut and styled the same as his outhe blues, but made of a mors comfortable and cheaper fabric.

Equipment is the same as the Army, including waistbelts. Again, while the Navy tried to make their own stuff, their shipyard work shosp could not keep up. The did attempt to have stuff made by contracting out, but the Army received first cut of this work so the Navy received very little from outside sources.

Steve hesson

[Union Navy]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

A good source for what arms were used when is:
"Civil War Small Arms of the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps" by John McAulay

The Plymouth only existed as the first 100 prototypes for the first half of the war. Marines tended to be armed as the Army was, and drilled likewise. Sailors were more familiary with skirmish drill, if they knew any drill at all. When in doubt, ask Steve H.

[sigsaye]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

Besides the basic manual of arms/School of the Soldier, Both Sailors and Marines routinely drilled. They focused most attention on skirmishing since they only tended to operate in small bodies (including Marines). Skirmish order was best suited to this manner of manuver. Formations of Sailors and Marines seldom reached the size of an Army company.

Ships companies were regularly taken ashore by division and drilled. If a marine detachment was available, then Marines were detailed to conduct the training. If not then a ships officer. They were also routinely exercised at target pratice both ashore and afloat. Again, since they were seldom able to have more than 20 or so men at a time, skirmis drill was the order of the day.

The Navy (or Marines) did not produce their won drill manual. Again, they were not really in that business. They used Army manuals and instructions when operating ahsore. The most commonly referanced manual for USN is Casey's. Mostly as this manual also has administrative instructions for use when operating with the Army.

Steve Hesson

[Hoosier Yank]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

If my memory serves me right… the USS CAIRO exhibit in Vicksburg had a double barreled shotgun (just the barrels), a M1842, a few revolvers and a single shot “horse pistol” that found onboard when she was brought up from the river bottom.

[sigsaye]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

That's one of the issues with the Naval impression. Reenactors always ask "what's correct"? Well, after you get the uniforms right, just about any gear or weapon is correct. There were some firearms that do not seem to have made it into Naval inventories, but all of the standard firearms work fine. Even CS stuff is correct. Remember, both Navies routinely captured each others vessels and used what was there. If the vessal was not useable at capture, everything that could be removed was taken off and spread around where needed.

There were also a number of civilian single shot and double shot pistols, basically the 1860s version of the "Saturday Night Special" found in what was the crews seabag locker. This indicates that at least some of the enlisted Sailors stashed small pistols to carry with them on liberty. I seriously doubt these weapons were carried tucked into the Sailors waistbands when they went to battle stations, but hidden and snuck off the ship.

Steve Hesson

[KentG]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

The CAIRO exhibit at Vicksburg has converted 1816/22 muskets, three on display, along with a .36 Navy revolver that belonged to the Commander (whose family donated many years ago). There is the remains of a double shotgun, barrels and guard parts on display. Several small single shot pistols, which were very common use on the river pre-war by all the river folks. The museum display card lists the converted muskets as the ship's arms, with the pistols being thought to be all personal arms, and the shotgun as an officer's property, perhaps for hunting as much as war. The acoutrements on display are all standard army types, US belts and buckles, .69 cartridge boxes. I haunt the place frequently as I do my Reseve duty in V-burg.

Mr. Goff, this is your third post on the forum, and you have yet to sign your posts as required by the forum rules you agreed to follow when you joined. Follow this link to view forum rules : http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...w_faq_item1998 - Silas Tackitt, one of the moderators

[Mikevpd]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

Also at the USS Cairo Museum are examples of Model 1832 Artillery short swords the crew were issued in place of the standard US Navy cutlasses. Out here on the western rivers, the term "beggars can't be choosers" has real merit.

[David Fox]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

Not doubting the assertion, but would like to know the souce for significant usage of Confederate arms and accoutrement by U.S. Navy personal during the war. One presumes use of items originally manufactured in the U.S. and captured from the Rebels (which would be indistinguishable from U.S. issue) and perhaps Enfields, but what about "CS stuff"?

[gsusat]

Re: M-1861 Plymouth Whitneyville Naval Rifle

David

If I am not mistaken Mcgee Horter and George leather gear was found on the Cairo.