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Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

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  • Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

    Comrades,

    I have posted this question here vice the authenticity forum, as I felt it more appropo. However, I would ask the mods to move it if they should disagree.

    My question is this: In rereading Geoff Walden's excellent article of surviving CD jackets, I noticed his description of the trim being indigo blue kersey wool. I pondered that thought for a moment, taking into account the huge volume of these jackets being made, and the expense of indigo blue kersey, why would it be used for trim unless a ready source was available. What occured to me was the possibility that those trims were being made from federal coats captured and cut up for the materials.

    I have a difficult time imagining the CS government spending scare resources on producing an expensive trim when, for example, the Richmond issues were indicating an abandonment of trim color, along with surperfluous belt loops and shoulder tabs. However, if one considers the huge quantities of federal materials captured through the early part of the war, and also of the possibilities of further claims on clothing, knapsacks, etc, abandoned on the field, then it seems to me perfectly plausible to "recycle" materials from captured coats, the blue for trim, and buttons as, well, buttons.

    Am I overthinking this issue, or is it possible that this might be all or part of the source for this material? Seeing that these coats were made in such huge numbers, and for so long, it just seems a bit penny-wise & pound-foolish to be manufacturing so much trim colour.

    Anyway, I'd appreciate your thought on this, or any documentation as to where the trim cloth came from, if not through captured garments.

    Respects to all,
    Tim Kindred
    Medical Mess
    Solar Star Lodge #14
    Bath, Maine

  • #2
    Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

    No its not, from the originals CD's that I have seen. It does not resemble anything I have seen in federal clothing...

    Jordan Ricketts
    Jordan Ricketts

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    • #3
      Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

      Jordan,

      I once had the unique opportunity to view some excellent research photos of the McDonnell jacket and I came away believing the remaining trim on the cuffs and collar to be fatigue blouse flannel. Now this was of course viewing on a computer screen rather than in person, and the deteriorated nature of the jacket certain shows the trim and all other parts down to their most worn state.

      That said, I personally believe that the Columbus Depot was making their trim from the same bolt or bolts of indigo dyed kersey throughout the war. Perhaps it was something on hand locally at the outset of the war, or a large bolt of material procured during the formation of the Columbus Depot, it will be hard to ever know without true documentation. However, the color of the kersey used in the jackets is far too light to be considered for federal use, either frocks or trousers.

      On final thought. From experience I was able to trim out around 45 Columbus Depot jackets from a single two yard piece of twilled wool that was around 52" wide. Though the Columbus Depot produced thousands of trimmed jackets through its years of operation, it is not hard to imagine it trimming out its jacket with a relatively small amount of indigo dyed kersey. After all, a number of their jackets show a considerable amount of work to conserve the jeanwool from which they were made, but no discernible corresponding effort was made in regard to the trim.

      Just a few thoughts for a Sunday morning!


      Best,
      Last edited by Dan Wambaugh; 02-10-2008, 09:12 AM.
      Dan Wambaugh
      Wambaugh, White, & Company
      www.wwandcompany.com
      517-303-3609
      Become our fan on Facebook by clicking HERE

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      • #4
        Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

        [QUOTE=1stMaine;93287] Seeing that these coats were made in such huge numbers, and for so long, it just seems a bit penny-wise & pound-foolish to be manufacturing so much trim colour.QUOTE]

        Tim - I think you have your answer right there. Going to the trouble to make up a bunch of indigo dyed kersey for a few jackets does not make sense. It makes a world of sense when you are manufacturing thousands of them.
        Soli Deo Gloria
        Doug Cooper

        "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

        Please support the CWT at www.civilwar.org

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        • #5
          Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

          Dan, Doug, et al,

          yeah... you are probably quite correct, but I'd be interested in delving into this on my own when the time presents itself, just as an interesting (to me atleast) research venture. One other little detail to try and nail down.

          Still and all, it is an interesting question. the other one, of course, the elephant in the room, as it were, is what quantity of these made it east, and when or how often?

          The problem that we all have with the material culture, is attempting to reconstruct it based upon severely limited remaining portions, and those, in some cases, of dubious probenance.

          Thanks to all.

          Respects,
          Tim Kindred
          Medical Mess
          Solar Star Lodge #14
          Bath, Maine

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

            My original CD Jacket (type II) has indigo blue trim (the Jenkins jacket). It would be difficult to find any US cloth that resembles it. I think many repro makers have used their own discretion to put on darker blue trim than is found in the originals giving rise to the possibility that the blue trim could be from US materials.

            Joe Walker

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            • #7
              Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

              Joe,

              My questions come from rereading Geoff's article surveying original extant CD's, not from repros.

              Respects,
              Tim Kindred
              Medical Mess
              Solar Star Lodge #14
              Bath, Maine

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                Tim,
                Joe Walker (the man posted above) has viewed at least one of those jackets more than anyone else possibly could. He is not a self appointed expert when it comes to Columbus Depot Jackets- he is an expert. I have had the chance to view (up close and in person) some of the Columbus Depot jackets, and they are in no way similar in color or weave to federal blouse flannel.
                Patrick Landrum
                Independent Rifles

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                  One thing to remember, Braxton Bragg's Army brought tons of fabric, medicines, and just about anything else useful out of Kentucky in Oct. 1862. Perhaps indigo Kersey was included?
                  everett taylor
                  [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Everett Taylor[/FONT]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                    Patrick,

                    I agree. I wasn't calling his experience into question, and perhaps poorly worded my response.

                    Still, it piques my interest that the QM could still obtain indigo dyed wool for trim for these jackets, when other departments were cutting bacl on not only trim, but the extras on the uniforms.

                    Having said that, it was still possible for a unit to order fully-trimmed jackets if they were willing to pay the costs for them. For example, the Mannassas museum has a fully-trimmed artillery jacket belonging to a member of the Washington Artillery. The battery he was assigned to made a "bulk purchase" as it were, of these red-trimmed jackets in 1864, and that data is with the documentation for the displayed jacket (according to the folks there).

                    Respects to all,
                    Tim Kindred
                    Medical Mess
                    Solar Star Lodge #14
                    Bath, Maine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                      Have to agree with Jordan here. Having access to look at two originals (Weller & Woodward) over the years, it really doesn't resemble any Federal material.
                      Last edited by Amtmann; 02-10-2008, 06:04 PM.
                      Rick Bailey
                      Melodian Banjoist from Allendale and Founder of Waffle Schnapps.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                        It’s difficult to speculate how the fabric was sourced when you don’t really know where the jackets were really made. The two pictures attached are of the Woodward and Weller. Weller is the nicer of the two…

                        Jordan Ricketts
                        Attached Files
                        Jordan Ricketts

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                          Jordan,

                          And that right there is one of the issues, if you will pardon the pun, regarding not only the CD jackets, but pretty much all CS items. So many folks still do not understand that there was a difference between the manufacturing and the distribution branches of the CSQM system. Just because something was issued out of one arsenal or depot, doesn't always mean it was made there, or even anywhere nearby.

                          Respects,
                          Tim Kindred
                          Medical Mess
                          Solar Star Lodge #14
                          Bath, Maine

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                            Tim,
                            I believe that is a pretty basic understanding even for anyone who slightly researches the Confederate Quartermaster Department.
                            Patrick Landrum
                            Independent Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

                              Originally posted by 1stMaine View Post
                              Jordan,

                              So many folks still do not understand that there was a difference between the manufacturing and the distribution branches of the CSQM system. Just because something was issued out of one arsenal or depot, doesn't always mean it was made there, or even anywhere nearby.
                              Respects,
                              I would recommend the book "Confederate Industry." It offers some insights, raises many questions, and provides a few surprises.

                              I'm still in the middle of reading it, but it gives me the opposite impression.

                              Any thoughts?

                              Greg Starbuck
                              The brave respect the brave. The brave
                              Respect the dead; but you -- you draw
                              That ancient blade, the ass's jaw,
                              And shake it o'er a hero's grave.


                              Herman Melville

                              http://www.historicsandusky.org

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