Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

[1stMaine]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Patrick,

You would think that to be the case, and on this board there are many who understand the various nuances, but I am still amazed to hear, from people who I thought knew better, comments that leave one scratching his head.

Respects,

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Tim-

Was that directed to me? Don't dance around it.

Greg Starbuck

[tmdreb]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Something else to remember is that you can't necessarily extrapolate what was happening in Virginia at a particular time to the rest of the Confederacy. Branch of service trim was very much evident in the Trans-Mississippi up through the end of the War, and the Deparment of Alabama jackets (late War items) were issued with blue collar trim as well.

These are just two examples. Others are readily available. For whatever reason, Richmond was cutting back on uniform trim as the War progressed, but this was certainly not the case everywhere else.

[1stMaine]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Tim-

Was that directed to me? Don't dance around it.

Greg Starbuck

Greg,

heaven's no.... I was personally thinkng of a fellow last year at a local event who was chastising a CS reenactor for wearing a cap rather than a hat as part of an AOT impression. There was, additionally, a reenactor up here in Maine who led a personal crusade against the wearing of hats, and especially army dress hats, despite the period references to them being issued, as being "hats that no New Englander would be caught dead wearing". When I refered him to an image of an original member of his own adopted regiment wearing a dress hat (along with a dress coat) he tried to pass it off as a modern faux-to-graph, despite the original glass plate image being held in a local historical society.

Greg, I have too much respect for you to toss you into some sort of "by the by" comment. If I ever have a beef with anyone on ths board, rest assured I will say so, and name such names as I deem prudent.

Respects,

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Tim-

Thank you kindly for the illumination. The juxtaposition of your post against my post.....

Greg Starbuck

[DougCooper]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Since the trim cloth on all 8 extant CD jackets appears to be the same - indigo dyed kersey, one possible conclusion is that the trim cloth was produced at one place and either distributed to all places that made CD jackets...OR, CD jackets were all produced in one place, using the one source of trim, and then distributed.

In the same vein, all "Dept of Alabama" jackets (4 known) have the same dark blue on brown jean collar trim...which is different than all CD jackets, which might lead to the same conclusion - all coming from the same manufacturer.

I echo the worth of the book "Confederate Industry" Greg and others mention.

[Enfield]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Except that the trim cloth is not all the same on "CD" jackets. It's all the same style of indigo dyed kersey-type material, but it's certainly not all from the same bolt or lot, and may or may not have been made at the same place. Like the jean material itself - there are differences. These are more apparent when you compare more than one original jacket side-by-side (the three Kentucky jackets, for example, have on occasion been together at the same place).

To me, along with the very different construction methods used in the different jackets, this argues against the jackets (or materials) all being made at the same place. But I don't think we can possitively rule it out.

Geoff Walden

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Take a look at this Columbus Depot jacket and its trim. (at least that's the attribution Les Jensen gave to it).

Go to this link and scroll down to the bottom photograph.

http://www.oldsouthantiques.com/os1397p2.htm

The trim is Logwood blue dyed cord, which had faded to a green color.

A few years ago at a show I was handed a paper grocery bag, I reached in and this jacket was inside. I must've sat for two hours with it.

Greg Starbuck

[DougCooper]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Except that the trim cloth is not all the same on "CD" jackets. It's all the same style of indigo dyed kersey-type material, but it's certainly not all from the same bolt or lot, and may or may not have been made at the same place. Like the jean material itself - there are differences. These are more apparent when you compare more than one original jacket side-by-side (the three Kentucky jackets, for example, have on occasion been together at the same place).

To me, along with the very different construction methods used in the different jackets, this argues against the jackets (or materials) all being made at the same place. But I don't think we can possitively rule it out.

Geoff Walden

Geoff - what I meant was that it was all Indigo dyed kersey - which like any kersey could vary much. The fact that each jacket (or at least 7 of them) use the same type trim would lead one to believe it was a standard item as called for in the QM description ("trim will be of indigo dyed kersey wool" or some such language) - which as far as I know has not been discovered/survived the destruction (or you would know all about it!) Does not mean it was made at the same place - could be made up all over and used to make CD jackets all over...or it did all come from say Eagle Mills (for instance) and simply varied over time in weight and color. So of course it was not from the same bolt, dye lot or whatever - but it is interesting that it is the same "type" trim...and that the Dept of Alabama jackets use the same "type" trim as well (dark blue on brown jean). Anybody know if the two "Brooke" jackets that are trimmed have the same type trim?

A fascinating subject and good to see you on here Geoff!

[coastaltrash]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Doug,
The Department of Alabama Jackets have jean trim (I actually think its more of a cotton jean) and are a bit darker than the Columbus Depot.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Having viewed the 'Bama jacket in New Orleans twice I would classify the collar material as wool, not cotton jean. It's not Fed blouse flannel but as Doug has described (and KC MacDonald in the very good article located on the Lazy Jacks website) a dark blue on brown warp wool. The closest reproduction I've seen of it was some navy on brown warp satinette that Pat Kline ran several years back. I bought three yards and have been slowly chipping away at it ever since.

My thoughts.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Stand corrected then and I was misinformed.

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Speaking of Columbus Depot jackets, check out this ebay auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/ConfederateTinty...QQcmdZViewItem

[DougCooper]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Doug,
The Department of Alabama Jackets have jean trim (I actually think its more of a cotton jean) and are a bit darker than the Columbus Depot.

Charles Childs #2B is in fact a copy of the dark blue wool on brown cotton jean used in the trim. I would have said "wool jean" but Charles hates anyone to use that term ("it's like saying pickup truck - everyone knows a pickup is a truck.") Jean was by definition wool on cotton then...while cotton jean was identified as cotton jean or denim.

There are a number of Dept of Alabama pattern jackets running around in the hobby with either medium blue on white/natural jean collars or cotton jean, both of which do not match any of the 4 originals.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Columbus Depot Jacket Trim. A question...

Important Proposition in the Georgia Legislature. December 1, 1862

The Committee of Finance of the Georgia Legislature to whom was referred that portion of Governor Brown's message relating to the furnishing of for the troops of that State, impressed with the importance of the subject, have submitted a form of resolutions, the adoption of which they recommend. These resolutions authorize in Governor, if satisfactory arrangements cannot be made with the proprietors otherwise, to and tanneries, and manufactured article in the State, and to appropriate their whole pro a good pair of shoes and a good suit of are furnished to every Georgia soldier in service who needs such assistance; with the provi that he interfere with no bone fide contracts which have been made with the Confederate Government or its authorized agents in my article required for the comfort of the sol

The resolutions also fix a scale of prices to be by the Governor for the following artillery.

For leather, per pound, one dollar; for shoes, are suitable for soldiers) per pair, three for each block or bunch of cotton yarn, two and a half dollars; for cotton per yard, twenty-five cents; for woollen jeans, two dollars per yard; for cotton shirting, wide, twenty cents, and in the same for shirting of other widths; for Georgia per yard, two and a half dollars; or prices us will afford a reasonable pro the prime cost of said articles.

The resolutions further authorize the Governor necessary, to extend the limits of these resolutions for and during the year 1863, so as to insure and shoes for necessitous Georgia troops year.