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Re: Battlefield Pickups
To all:
I have been in WBTS living history since 1997. I still try to attend an event or two when I have leave off from the Army.
As a note: I have served for the past 4 years in a Quartermaster Battalion in the modern US Army and while in Iraq for 14 months. Here are my personal observations on the "battlefield pickups" and troop issuing equipment situation in modern-day warfare below. (Note: it might have been different during the WBTS- transportation and supply was certainly not as regular as we have it today in the Army, but human mentality changes very little over the ages.)
-I was attached as a military trainer to the Iraqi Army. I am in the Army, but I worked mostly with Marines and Iraiqs. I was the supply officer to my team as well as the supply liason/trainer to a 250+ Iraqi battalion. Since my nearest supply warehouse was Marine-run, I wore Marine-issue equipment. I made sure to wear my patrol cap (which is Army-pattern ACU) and Army 1LT or CPT rank so everyone knew I was in the Army when I wore my Marine flight suit. I NEVER wore Marine Utilities because this would look "too Marine" and I wasn't- I'm an Army officer. But the desert sand colors of equipment (magazine pouches/goggles/pattern of eyewear/gunner's gloves, in particular) I wore were solely Marine once my Army stuff was broken or lost. We thought, who cares- it was good quality equipment and provided we didn't look "too Marine" then we could use the equipment. I was even issued the older DCU pattern equipment when I was downrange due to the fact our Army-run warehouses didn't have any more current ACU-pattern- they simply ran out of the "good stuff" so I was given old stuff and had to give that to my fellow transition-team members.
From a supply officer's point-of-view think about it: You issue what you've got and provided it isn't obscuring someone's branch-of-service with another branch and giving a false uniform, you are good-to-go.
-We went into Kuwait with older DCU equipment issued to us from our home-station supply activity. All at one time in Kuwait, my battle rattle uniform had BDU, DCU and ACU patterns of equipment at one time in used and new condition. Bear in mind- I am an Army regular officer. I saw some Minnesota National Guardsmen and other Reservists with ALL ACU-pattern equipment with the latest and best backpacks their state could buy them. The were better outfitted than I was and I am a regular officer!
-As far as "battlefield pickups" are concerned. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen insurgents with American/Soviet pieces of equipment. Remember the picture of Zarqawi firing a M249 SAW??? That was an American-made weapon by FN of Columbia SC. How'd he get that? (He didn't know how to use the darn thing anyway.) ;) Iraqi soldiers would use US equipment in a heartbeat because their own supply lines were awful and US stuff was better in design and quality.
- Generally, in battle, if a piece of equipment is of better quality, fit, or pattern than the one you got issued, then you'll use it. Who cares if it came from a dead guy? Now Americans wouldn't use Iraqi equipment because it was inferior, but I know many US advisors that have an extra AK-47 in their kit with ammo because it's nice to have a full-auto backup weapon to your M-16 or M4 carbine. You can check one out from the Iraqi battalion generally. You might use a shemaugh (Arab checkered headcloth) under your helmet for warmth or to prevent dust from getting in your throat.
Sorry, guys, knowing what I know from working in and with a military warehouse in actual battle, human mentality and military mentality doesn't change. If you were Confederate, sometimes unless you were near a depot, you wouldn't even have supply lines left especially during the later years of the war. Knowing what I know about the mentalities of actual war and the military, I just cannot see a Confederate on the move and starving, refusing to replace his worn-out butternut jeancloth with a pair of brand-new sky blue Federal pants grabbed off of a dead Federal soldier. "No, these are not my correct uniform pattern" would be the LAST thing out of his mouth- trust me. Soldiers aren't like that. You take what you can get- especially if you are in want of better. In the instance of not always having pictoral evidence to provide information, remember that many after-battle pictures were heavily propped and possible naked bodies were quickly clothed to preserve period sensibilities, so those pictures could be wrong. We have to bear that in mind when looking at a period picture- it COULD be as is, but it MIGHT be staged. Also, remember that it is easy to say some things when you are well-fed, reasonably warm, and nicely clothed on a reenactment weekend, but try to remember that many people had to find a way to clothe and feed themselves when they were on-campaign, many times without regular supply.
BLUF: You use what you got, but if you can get better, then by all means do so. Just don't look too much like the enemy or another branch-of-service to avoid confusion. Who give a darn what pattern it is or color...
Thanks- Johnny Lloyd
PS- I cannot tell where I was or any more specifics due to OPSEC, but the above is true to what I experienced for 14 months.
To all:
I have been in WBTS living history since 1997. I still try to attend an event or two when I have leave off from the Army.
As a note: I have served for the past 4 years in a Quartermaster Battalion in the modern US Army and while in Iraq for 14 months. Here are my personal observations on the "battlefield pickups" and troop issuing equipment situation in modern-day warfare below. (Note: it might have been different during the WBTS- transportation and supply was certainly not as regular as we have it today in the Army, but human mentality changes very little over the ages.)
-I was attached as a military trainer to the Iraqi Army. I am in the Army, but I worked mostly with Marines and Iraiqs. I was the supply officer to my team as well as the supply liason/trainer to a 250+ Iraqi battalion. Since my nearest supply warehouse was Marine-run, I wore Marine-issue equipment. I made sure to wear my patrol cap (which is Army-pattern ACU) and Army 1LT or CPT rank so everyone knew I was in the Army when I wore my Marine flight suit. I NEVER wore Marine Utilities because this would look "too Marine" and I wasn't- I'm an Army officer. But the desert sand colors of equipment (magazine pouches/goggles/pattern of eyewear/gunner's gloves, in particular) I wore were solely Marine once my Army stuff was broken or lost. We thought, who cares- it was good quality equipment and provided we didn't look "too Marine" then we could use the equipment. I was even issued the older DCU pattern equipment when I was downrange due to the fact our Army-run warehouses didn't have any more current ACU-pattern- they simply ran out of the "good stuff" so I was given old stuff and had to give that to my fellow transition-team members.
From a supply officer's point-of-view think about it: You issue what you've got and provided it isn't obscuring someone's branch-of-service with another branch and giving a false uniform, you are good-to-go.
-We went into Kuwait with older DCU equipment issued to us from our home-station supply activity. All at one time in Kuwait, my battle rattle uniform had BDU, DCU and ACU patterns of equipment at one time in used and new condition. Bear in mind- I am an Army regular officer. I saw some Minnesota National Guardsmen and other Reservists with ALL ACU-pattern equipment with the latest and best backpacks their state could buy them. The were better outfitted than I was and I am a regular officer!
-As far as "battlefield pickups" are concerned. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen insurgents with American/Soviet pieces of equipment. Remember the picture of Zarqawi firing a M249 SAW??? That was an American-made weapon by FN of Columbia SC. How'd he get that? (He didn't know how to use the darn thing anyway.) ;) Iraqi soldiers would use US equipment in a heartbeat because their own supply lines were awful and US stuff was better in design and quality.
- Generally, in battle, if a piece of equipment is of better quality, fit, or pattern than the one you got issued, then you'll use it. Who cares if it came from a dead guy? Now Americans wouldn't use Iraqi equipment because it was inferior, but I know many US advisors that have an extra AK-47 in their kit with ammo because it's nice to have a full-auto backup weapon to your M-16 or M4 carbine. You can check one out from the Iraqi battalion generally. You might use a shemaugh (Arab checkered headcloth) under your helmet for warmth or to prevent dust from getting in your throat.
Sorry, guys, knowing what I know from working in and with a military warehouse in actual battle, human mentality and military mentality doesn't change. If you were Confederate, sometimes unless you were near a depot, you wouldn't even have supply lines left especially during the later years of the war. Knowing what I know about the mentalities of actual war and the military, I just cannot see a Confederate on the move and starving, refusing to replace his worn-out butternut jeancloth with a pair of brand-new sky blue Federal pants grabbed off of a dead Federal soldier. "No, these are not my correct uniform pattern" would be the LAST thing out of his mouth- trust me. Soldiers aren't like that. You take what you can get- especially if you are in want of better. In the instance of not always having pictoral evidence to provide information, remember that many after-battle pictures were heavily propped and possible naked bodies were quickly clothed to preserve period sensibilities, so those pictures could be wrong. We have to bear that in mind when looking at a period picture- it COULD be as is, but it MIGHT be staged. Also, remember that it is easy to say some things when you are well-fed, reasonably warm, and nicely clothed on a reenactment weekend, but try to remember that many people had to find a way to clothe and feed themselves when they were on-campaign, many times without regular supply.
BLUF: You use what you got, but if you can get better, then by all means do so. Just don't look too much like the enemy or another branch-of-service to avoid confusion. Who give a darn what pattern it is or color...
Thanks- Johnny Lloyd
PS- I cannot tell where I was or any more specifics due to OPSEC, but the above is true to what I experienced for 14 months.
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