Mechanics of an event

[Charles Heath]

Re: Mechanics of an event

"The only disinfection system effective against viruses, bacteria, cryptosporidium, and Giardia.

Hank,

Good catch! The product advertising does specifically mention giardia, yet the Outdoor magazine's review does not. The various third party sources tend to lean hard on chlorine dioxide killing giardia, at least since 1997. Yet another good reason to use Micropur....wait Katadyn isn't an approved vendor. :p

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Mechanics of an event

To make clear there are many commercially available water-treatment products (tablets/crystals/solutions) that are capable of killing crypto and giardia. My suggestion was not for iodine tablets, I simply mentioned the polar pure (iodine crystals) as an example (and yes they are capable of killing giardia, don't know about crypto~would have to confirm with the company).

http://www.polarequipment.com/treatment.htm

Yes, I realize that on campaign boiling water is usually not appropriate...in static scenarios it may be. Certainly civilian populace (at an event like McDowell) would have an easier time of this, but realizing that much of the water probably should be coming from a well. Our ancestors weren't stupid, and even way back knew the dangers of cantaminated water (rivers/streams not only had natural contaminates, but were also used to provide a median for refuse to be carried away~this is a practice that only "recently" is being corrected). Because our forbearers realized the hazard of drinking water, a variety of other water-based fluids evolved because they were for a time considered to be less hazardess.

What one really has to be careful about is how they are used...

For example, if you were to dunk your canteen in a contaminated/infected stream, and simply pass your purification (tablet/crystal/solution) into your canteen, you still have the potential to pick up the bacteria around the lip of your canteen when you drink from it. A solution to this; before drinking from said canteen place the cork in just enough for the now purified water to run out of the canteen, swish around the lip of the mouthpiece so that the chemicals might disenfect the lip.

Bottom line; to reinforce the discussion, there's no surefast solution to being safe and not being anachronistic. The idea of period "water-huts" or travelling tanks is probably the best solution where a stream is not present but as Charles mentioned before, even here you would want to set something in the tanks to prevent the nasties from self-propagating in your water source.

Alot of this has been mentioned before, and its all good information. I look forward to seeing what other discussions evolve from this new folder as far as event hosting ideas/recommendations. While each of us has there favorite events, it can be an exciting thing for new events to evolve and come about.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Mechanics of an event

Kevin, I'm not sure I'm reading the above paragraph correctly. Are you saying that crypto and giardia are the things that purification tablets won't kill, or are you referring to some other bacteria that you didn't name?

Iodine and chlorine-based tablets won't kill crypto, but I'm not recommending those.

The tablet I use is different. It's based on chlorine dioxide and is EPA tested to kill both crypto and giardia.


....almost all commercially provided water comes from a source, originally, that's unsafe to drink directly from, else there wouldn't be a need for commercial treatment plants. Our commercial water at home comes from the Ohio River, but I wouldn't go down to the bank and drink it straight.

Hank,

Thanks for clearing up the thing about the purification tablets. I did not know the particular type to which you were intiially referring.

As to water sources in general, by "known to be safe" I meant a water source that is regularly tested in accordance with the requirements of the health department having jurisdiction and is therefore "known" to be safe.

I agree with Charles that some events can probably do more to disguise their water supply tank, but if I'm going to compromise on some aspect of my "immersion" experience, I can stomach having to get water from an ag tank with plastic dispensing valves much more readily than I can stomach a period-correct visit from e-coli.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Mechanics of an event

Pat,

That would definitely be a deeply grained, burled, and knotty wood subject to splintering, crowning, and warping.

I suppose a folder would be a good substitute for those who haven't viewed the Power Point presentation on this very subject. It was a keeper.

Ya know, Kevin sent me that file and I never even checked it out. By that point the 4 W's of Event organizing had been answered (that would be "when, who, water, why) Kevin filled a damn big gap in that event that otherwise would have left an "f" in there somewhere.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Mechanics of an event

if I'm going to compromise on some aspect of my "immersion" experience, I can stomach having to get water from an ag tank with plastic dispensing valves much more readily than I can stomach a period-correct visit from e-coli.

We're in total agreement on that. Otherwise, we wouldn't even be discussing the best modern ways to treat water.

If you have any actual evidence that water treated with Micropur is more apt to contain e-coli or any other harmful bacteria, viruses or giardia or crypto than water from an ag tank, I'd be interested, because according to everything I can find, it's equally safe. If it's just prejudice against the "ewww" factor of drinking (treated) water from a creek, I guess I'll just bear my burden as one of those foolish hardcores who eats unrefrigerated meat, drinks bad water and sleeps in the dirt. :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[LindaTrent]

Re: Mechanics of an event

I agree with Charles that some events can probably do more to disguise their water supply tank, but if I'm going to compromise on some aspect of my "immersion" experience, I can stomach having to get water from an ag tank with plastic dispensing valves much more readily than I can stomach a period-correct visit from e-coli.

I've seen some water tanks at events that I'd rather not drink from. The water going into them might be from a county water source, but the tank itself was somewhat disgusting. On the other hand I don't believe either Charles or Hank got sick after the '57 camping trip (I know I didn't), and due to the drought, we drank some extremely disgusting long stagnant water that I think all three of us questioned. But we gave the tablets more time to work and voila, we're all still here to tell the story.:tounge_sm

FWIW, I found this a while ago on the web Wisemen Trading

"Katadyn brings you effective water purification with their Micropur MP1 water tablets for disinfection of drinking water. Micropur MP1 Purification Tablets are EPA registered to be effective against Cryptosporidium, Giardia, bacteria, and viruses without using a filter. Micropur tablets are approved by the U.S. Military and the Boy Scouts of America as well... emergency organizations..."

If they're good enough for our boy scouts (see also Philmont Ranch) , our military, and emergency organizations they're good enough for me. :tounge_sm

Hope that helps somehow :D

Linda.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Mechanics of an event

I've seen some water tanks at events that I'd rather not drink from. The water going into them might be from a county water source, but the tank itself was somewhat disgusting.

Linda,

I have, too, and that is one of the reasons we go to great lengths to sanitize the ag tanks and food service grade barrels. Scrubbing the insides with a long handled brush isn't much of a problem, shocking the initial load isn't too bad, but the dust that enters through the vented lid of the ag tanks can be unsightly at times. Normally, over the course of a weekend in dusty conditions, this amounts to about a level teaspoonful in a typical tank.

Probably the worst water I've had at an event in recent memory came from a barrel that had been filled for approximately two years, and left to sit. Needless to say, the taste, texture, turbidity....you get the picture. Cleaning and refilling would have helped quite a bit. Oddly enough, no one became sick from that water. I still scratch my head at that one.

Sometimes wooden barrels have some interesting flavors from the original contents. The cooking and washing water in open barrels at an event last summer had a distinctive bourbon flavor courtesy of Barton Brands (not an approved vendor), but I noticed the attendees filled their canteens from these barrels rather than step over to the water truck parked a couple hundred feet away. Mmmm, tasty.

One of the consistent features of Living History Guild (LHG) and WIG events has been the use of wooden water barrels, and for the sake of appearances, this is a step up. To achieve a manifold effect at one of the last Death March events, three wooden barrels with were set up on notched logs under the shade of a tree, and while 159 gallons of water was a bit of overkill for that location, it worked well. Fortunately, set up, recovery, etc. was made easier by good access. Is this perfect? Nope. Does it beat dipping water out of a garbage can a la Olustee or gallon jugs? Perhaps it does.

On the other hand I don't believe either Charles or Hank got sick after the '57 camping trip (I know I didn't), and due to the drought, we drank some extremely disgusting long stagnant water that I think all three of us questioned.

I even managed to get some lake water by loosening the canteen strap, but the rainwater trying desperately to give us an impression of the waterfall (darn that drought) was pretty good, too. Believe me when I say I've had worse. The water was good, and these modern tablets leave no aftertaste. This is a good thing.

Unfortunately, they may or may not work with larger groups. That would be a good experiment some time with a battalion of 200 or so on a good and happy march. We know some reenactors won't drink water purified in this manner (BGR 2007) and others get skittish when they *think* the water came from a creek (Cactoctin COI 2002) and some just freak out totally at the thought of springwater (Burkittsville 2001) no matter what is done with it. Still, being independent of the great mass of watering infrastructure would be a heck of a fine thing.

[Todd Watts]

How to plan an event?

Got a question here. Has anyone planned a re-enactment event? There is some interest in the Mid-TN region for a good event (to replace several small poor ones) to draw attention to the Tullahoma Campaign. I am sort of becoming one of the pushers instead of the pushees and really have little idea where to start. What problems came up when you planned yours? What was the cost factor, and what did you learn?

Several folks in the area here are trying in a disjointed fashion to save the Tullahoma Campaign sites that are not yet developed. One way to do this is to get local support and to do that we need to make them realize what revenue the Civil War sites can bring to them if the sites are preserved. A good medium to large scale event can draw the immediate attention about the campaign while at the same time flooding local business leaders with cash. My own intrest came up because I now own land right next to the Liberty Gap battlefields and as I drive around the area I see it is almost wholely undeveloped still, but the big farms on it are noww getting sold and it is only a short matter of time until suburbs spread.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: How to plan an event?

Todd, scan down the forum section a bit--yes, you'll find quite a few folks here have organized events, and have some good advice. Getting local support for interesting events is a great start.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Mechanics of an event

Get the land for the event site first--locked up, in writing. Don't neglect insurance requirements.

Define the event concept. Market the event to potential participants (without being overbearing about it) and be realistic about expectations and numbers of attendees.

Realistically develop a budget for the event and set the participant registration fee accordingly.

Open a history book, read it, and then do what it says--simple formula.

Keep the event committee size managable; more committee members does not necessarily mean better because lots of folks do not have the will or ability to carry though on their promises.

The person handling logistics (WATER, sanitary, fuel, food & forage, etc.) needs to be well-organized and know what they're doing. Disinfect the water and the tank.

Handle registration in a professional manner--keep proper records, don't sit on uncashed checks for weeks or months. Pay debts promptly.

Follow through--before, during, and even AFTER the event.

[EasySam]

Re: Mechanics of an event

This thread has been dormant awhile, but I am interested about something. All the talk about water needed, there is "the other end" of the question. I'd like some thoughts and suggestions about sinks, latrines, porta johns, etc. I know at mainstream events the little blue houses are easily seen (for good or bad). A little camo paint could help. What are some of ya'lls experiences at more history intensive events. As a plumbing contractor, I do know this unpleasant logistic is extremely important, healthwise. Perhaps even moreso than water supply. It wouldn't take too much for a local county health department to come sniffing around. Without tooooo much detail, how are sinks set up and what about hygeinic papers, leaves or cobs?:D

[Dave Hull]

Re: Mechanics of an event

Not sure how to do it these days, but way back when, we made ground charges from Black Powder, a flash cue, some old Claymore wire, a saucer cup sized plastic trash bag cut out, hundred mile an hour tape, a Claymore clacker and a coffee tin buried about a foot deep. Makes a nice boom, plenty of smoke and you can set them off virtually on top of yourself without taking any damage. The blast is straight up so anything outside of 10 yards is safe.