Starting a Mess

[lukegilly13]

I need some advice/feedback on starting a mess. I have been looking for a good Confederate mess to get into for years and cannot find one local enough that I can make the majority of their events. So I have a thought...I'd like to start one of my own. Now that being said, my idea is to start one with the original soul purpose of helping "mainstream" reenactors (since there seems to be an abundance of them around here) improve their impression to become more authentic. This would help build interest a little at a time without the intimidation of feeling like you are splashing in over your head. As they achieve our authentic standards (physically and mentally) they can become an active member and begin helping new recruits. So maybe for the first few years it could be a "mess in training" for a lack of better term. I'd love some advice from those who have been there.
1. What is the best way to go about setting authenticity standards?
2. With the above plan in mind, how much can we "overlook" or "coverup" until new recruits get started?
3. Is it better to build a few members before we begin to set standards??
Any advice will be appreciated!

[dusty27]

Re: Starting a Mess

Luke, where are you located?

[Greg Barnett]

Re: Starting a Mess

Sent you a PM
Cheers

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

Luke, where are you located?

Extreme North East Tennessee....walking distance to The Cumberland Gap. About 5 miles to Kentucky...about 5 miles to Virginia

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

Thanks for the replies! I never knew there were so many authentics around. I think my plan will be to "visit" a couple during some mainstream battles and maybe march in sometime and see what it's about! Thanks a ton for the quick responses!

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

It's great to have such a strong mainstream unit that works with its reenactors. Have to brang on the 37th! Hope to see you guys through the smoke!

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

Mods...satisfied with response...delete as soon as you want!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Starting a Mess

Hallo!

Glad it is working out. IMHO, networking with like-minded individuals is an easier and more productive way to go than reinventing a wheel (with a flat tire).

"...I'd like to start one of my own. Now that being said, my idea is to start one with the original soul purpose of helping "mainstream" reenactors (since there seems to be an abundance of them around here) improve their impression to become more authentic"

IMHo, that would indeed be a "soul purpose," but one that would eventually lead to subsequent postings about the perceived value of "missionary work" and "leading by example" where at times it demonstrates a misunderstanding of Mental Pictures and an arrogance that the majority of lads are firstly wrong, and second desireous or appreciative of hearing the gospel you bring to them as to how they should improve.

But I won't. ;) :) :)

Curt
Half a-funnin', half serious...

[SCTiger]

Re: Starting a Mess

A couple of hints if I may. I have been recruiting for a year and to me, most mainstream units are tapped out for available prospects. I base this on several factors, such as, attitudes toward campaigner-LH events, loyalty to a mainstream unit-schedule and mostly the willingness to improve their impression and learn new things. It could be that you will contact over 100 mainstreamers and you will find perhaps 5 that will make the conversion, a few will place a c/p/h event in their schedule. It's a low return. That's my experience and opinion, it's not an indictment of the entire mainstream side of the hobby or every event. If you have to proselytize and "convert" people (missionary work) it takes too much energy and it's better spent elsewhere.

Not to be discouraging but, here are my ideas. Recruit in counties and cities that never see a reenactment or have ever had a living history. There are seven to ten counties in SC that hold reenactments or some sort of Civil War event each year. There are large sections rest of the State has never seen a reenactor in person or hosted any events. Reach out to the public in these "open areas" at SCV/SUV meetings, gun shows, museum programs, genealogical meetings etc. Areas that have active ACW museums or battlefields usually have large clusters of reenactors living nearby, there is a cultural support of CW interest. You can target those areas, but I believe that you will find more "recruits" in virgin territory as the sales guys used to say. You are the only "show" in town, if you invest in a few gallons of gasoline.

New fish, straight off the street have disadvantages, but if you are building a new mess, it's the way to go. You don't have to "de-program" them from bad reenacting habits. You can help them purchase the right gear the first time (they actually save money that way). You don't have to fight a social and psychological regret of "deserting" a mainstream unit, plus you aren't seen as "stealing" other units members. The best part, you are making the hobby grow as a whole. If you recruit the 17 to 34 year olds, you are insuring that this hobby will continue.

We could (ought to) start a new thread about recruiting "fresh fish" and the type of people we are looking for. This isn't based on any status, it's based on CW interest and a "love of history." There are plenty of people who are interested in the ACW and they get their fix by reading books, viewing films and visiting museums. Some even collect relics or artwork. Some will take history courses at a college or school and many ACW "buffs" would never consider becoming a reenactor. We are very visible, we advertise for recruits, but it takes a direct approach and one on one salesmanship to get the best results for all concerned. The hobby is accessible, we are also intimidating in many ways. We often think we are the only ones that care or possess any knowledge about the war, we aren't. We should target the right people and "out reach" to other areas, and do it with a little more humility.

I challenge everyone on this forum to recruit one person to the c/p/h hobby this year.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

Great advice from both of you! I surely appreciate it. I teach school and do a LOT of living histories (in fact, if it weren't for missing the camping, they'd be my favorite). I wonder if a mess could survive as a living history organization only that would not effect people's battle schedule? Another fear I have is that there are some VERY bad reenactors out there; luckily I have found an ancestor driven, really good mainstream unit with several guys that do pay attention to detail. Do you see this hobby getting worse? For instance, when I played high school baseball almost nobody threw a 6:00-12:00 curve ball because they were bad for your arm. Little league coaches began using it because the ball will curve without tremendous arm strenght. Now as a coach, I have 5 pitchers that came in only knowing that pitch and I had to remove the thought. Will this happen in reenacting? Will we someday go to an event and everyone be wearing "dockers" trousers, $50 jackets made of questionable wool/polyester, cowboy hats and workboots because it was easier and more comfortable? If this is the future, there will be no future and I fear the death of a good honest man's hobby that I love!

[MD_Independent]

Re: Starting a Mess

That's what the EBUFU are for... My hobby seems to get better every year... Don't know much about mainstream anymore... Icare even less.... See ya in the field.

William Birney

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Starting a Mess

Hallo!

"I wonder if a mess could survive as a living history organization only that would not effect people's battle schedule?

As you may know, I use and over-use the mantra of Mental Pictures to the point of it being a broken record (another anachronistic cliche). But yes, a mess can well survive as long as its members are deriving a value or reward back from the amount of self, time, and money they put it into it (what they see themselves doing and where they see themselves fitting in).
A number of years ago, we were going to create a six or nine man "Color Guard" mess, as we were "tired" of blank shooting. ;) :)

Currently, I am a member of the Shade Tree Mess which is used by a handful of messmates in putting together both messes, companies, and battalions to pick-and-choose events we want to do. At some EBUFU events we do the full "program." At times, we are at Mainstream events doing blanket talks or living histories but never the "battles."
If someone is in a "Mainstream" unit, there can be friction, resentment, and problems if they as a "mess" decide the Carpe Eventum Powder Burner is "farby" and not want to participate. They can also create problems when the outside perception of what they are trying to do is perceived as being "better" or "superior" to the way the unit does and has always done "things" whether impresisons, clothung, gear, activities, etc., etc.

Another fear I have is that there are some VERY bad reenactors out there; luckily I have found an ancestor driven, really good mainstream unit with several guys that do pay attention to detail. Do you see this hobby getting worse.

I have only my own experience and observations, supplemented by a few friends to go on. That being, there are no very bad reenactors out there- there are just lads whose chosen Mental Pictures call for a different level of History-Light versus History-Heavy to be applied to what they do and how they do it.
What happens to some of us, over time, is that we grow, progress, and evolve toward a more History-Heavy Mental Picture. Often times, most all times, the further to the right side of the F/M/C/P/H/A Paradigm we move toward, the less well we "fit in" with those to the left. Being unable to "change" the cultures to the left, we either leave or are forced out to be with more like-minded folks- some sooner than others, some with more bloodshed and scarring than others.

IMHO, I do not see "this hobby" getting worse. Boy and Man, looking at it for 34 years, if there is such a thing as just ONE "this hobby," it is overall better than it was in say 1974. Granted, much of the "better" is at the right side of the Alphabet Letters- as somethings are still fixed at say 1974 or 1984 because part of the culture reenacts reenacting, and does not reenact history. And some things progress, such as while the uniform items of say a "C & D Jarnagin" may have been the "hardcore" of 1984, they get wider use today as "mainstream."
And some times, so-called "Mainstream" groups can "out drill" and "out manual" some H/A lads because H/A lads can tend to be only messes and EBUFU-assembled units that lack company and battalion level drill training and constant practice.
Etc., etc.,

What I do see, however, is that Civil War Community enjoys rhythmic cycles of ups and downs over time as its membership grows, declines, grows, declines, etc. For example the 125th Aniversary Event series. While we are in a period of starting decline in numbers, some segments and events are growing while the mega turbo national type events are shifitng down. But that is a subject for a longer discussion due to interests and econony factors.

And, of course...

Others mileage will vary...

Curt

[vamick]

Re: Starting a Mess

Your picture looks familar!..I see yall attend Blue Springs, perchance were you the pickett who stopped me in 02 with ahem...'contraban'??:D right near the log cabin/headquarters? if so I consider yall a tight outfit!;) and yes it really was supplies for the captain:D
sent ya a PM

[lukegilly13]

Re: Starting a Mess

Yes I believe that was us that stopped you! Good to know that you were just keeping the captain happy! You look familar was well....i'll look you up at blue springs or feel free to come to our Jonesville, VA event!

[Ryan Halsey]

Re: Starting a Mess

Hey Luke, Im interested in your mess. You know I live about 1 1/2 hours away, but I still attend events over your way. Hope to see yeah a lot this year, like at After the Battle, Gettysburg, Chickamauga, At High Tide, .......
ttyl,
Ryan Halsey
37th NC Company B (Iron Grays Mess)
1st VA Company D