Valises & saddle bags

[Ken Knopp]

Here is something you don’t see enough reenactors using.....valises. These are two I photographed recently from a notable collection.

1. Is a blue wool cloth valise. Very well made with nice interior lining. Sorry I have no documentation on its origins nor dimensions right now. These may pre-date the war.

2. Is another nice leather one. This one may have been black at some point but the leather is showing age and dry rot symptoms. Again, sorry I have no documentation on its origins nor dimensions right now.

3. A documented pair of saddle bags. These were used by Confederate surgeon Bick (?). Potts (his name is written in ink on inside interior along with “MS” (for military surgeon I think) and “Surgeon CS Army”). The bags were made by “Betts Nichols & Co. 349 Broadway, N.Y.” and also stamped inside. Very nice well made pair for an officer or surgeon but NOT something an enlisted man would have.

Anyway, some period equestrian “eye candy”.


Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[1stMaine]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Ken,

Thanks for posting those. They are very nice images. FWIW, the "MS" stands for "Medical Service".

Respects,

[csabugler]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Ken , correct me if I'm wrong here, I often am, but a valise would be innapropriate for a private, wouldn't it?

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Patrick,

I love your “post script” about “always” and “never”! Well said.
As to your question, of course I assume we are discussing only C.S. cavalry?.....In short, valises were very, very common for privates usage early to mid-war but became somewhat less so from then on (as did the use of saddle bags). Actually, as for issue items it would also depend upon geographic location. Here is a quick overview I wrote some time ago.
Early in the war civilian bags, home-grown, military type valises, bags, “wallets” (and blanket rolls) were brought into service in varying numbers and widely varying patterns by troopers until arsenal production began issuing these items. For troopers in the east valises were much more common than bags (but not pervasive) due to the prevalence of the Jenifer saddle. In the west, it seems both valises and saddles bags were produced depending upon the type saddle produced at an arsenal (generally valises with Jenifer patterns and bags with Macs) and at the “wide” discretion of the arsenal commanders. From 1861 through 1862 significant numbers of saddle bags were made in the west at places like Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, etc.. Some valises were also made at these places too while many more valises were made in this period at Augusta, Montgomery, Macon and Selma for their “Jenifer” pattern saddles. Note that shortages were common so many saddles were issued without valises (or bags for that matter).
By 1863, growing scarcity of materials necessitated the production of valises and bags to be slowed. They were still made but in increasingly smaller numbers. My personal opinion suggests this slowdown was also due somewhat to a lessening demand (Many troopers simply used a blanket roll). By 1864 few valises or saddle bags appear to have been made and those largely appear to be an officer’s only item.
In Feb of 1864 an order was issued describing subsequent saddle bag production, “Fifth: Saddle bags will, if needed, be prepared of strong and suitable cotton cloth, properly enameled. No leather will be used for this purpose hereafter.” In my opinion, orders like this were behind the times as bags appear to have been infrequently produced by this time in the war anyway except those as sold to officers. As to be expected, “captured” bags and valises were also a part of the overall “usage” equation.
What did Confederate-made items look like? Officer’s valises and bags were different in appearance from troopers apparently as to quality of materials and amenities. For troopers, arsenal produced valises generally tended to follow pre war patterns. Valises were made of just leather, cloth (wool early in the war then painted cloth) or combinations of both leather and cloth. Usually with wooden ends to hold their shape. Sizes, quality and add-ons varied. In general, russet leather would be more common than black. Hardware was that which was available to the Southern arsenal at the time....variations of iron and brass horse shoe or iron roller buckles similar to those used on spur straps and bridles.
I would hope that more reenactor's consider making use of valises. They are appropriate and under represented.

The photograph enclosed is a allegedly a Jenifer valise and similar to the Jenifer “patent” item. Course, I am kind of partial to the cloth valise depicted on page 109 of my book.
Sorry to be so long winded.

Ken R Knopp

[AZFarrier]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Ken by chance you wouldn't know the dimentions fo the middle valise (first post) would you? As of right now I am attending Marmadukes raid and am in need of either saddle bags or a valise for my mounted impression. I normally do US but since I guess there will be a shortage of CS Cav I will go to the dark side.
Thank you

[csabugler]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Thanks Ken. I knew that was all in your book, but I've been looking at this at work and your book is at home. So a valise would be unlikely for my Mac, but a canvas valise might be ok with my Muley for mostly mid to late war in the west., especially when I do mounted bugler with officers and staff. Anybody making one , or is there a pattern?

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

The sizes on most valises I have seen appear to be fairly routine. They range from 16 inches to 20 inches long. Generally, about 18 inches. The widths range from 5 to 6.5 inches with 6 inches being fairly consistent. The canvas valise in my book (pg 109) measures 17.5 by 6.5 inches. I don't have a size for the russet leather valise at my finger tips but refer you to the notes above for reference in making one.
I know of no one that currently makes the canvas valises as a stock item. I could suppose Doug Kidd and Karl Pepper would make them if asked. Seems there is a certain "void" in reproduction canvas horse equipment such as valises, bags, reins, saddles (?), etc. While some folks have made their own I have yet to see a repro cloth saddle anywhere -although I would like to. Best,

Ken R Knopp

[AZFarrier]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Thank you Ken for the dimentions. Because of the high price of quality leather goods I have been forced to start making my own equipment with allot of advice and complament form Don Smith (Trans Mississippi Depot Co.). I am not up to making saddles just yet but I would like to start to undertake an accurate valise that I can use on long rides and campaigning. As soon as I get a few irons out of the fire I plan on starting this project.
Thank you again.

[44th Miss Inf]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

There was a Richard Potts listed as a Surgeon, on film number M818, roll 19, :General and Staff Officers, Corps, Division and Brigade Staffs, Non-com. Staffs and Bands, Enlisted Men, Staff Departments, C.S.A.
Kind of off topic, but may help someone researching.

Virgil Roberts

[Spinster]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Ken,

If you have knowledge of the material used as a interlining or stiffener for the cloth valise, I'd be grateful for the information.

I made several of these for the children and myself in the context of BGR, using a linsey-woolsey exterior, a fustian interior, and a horsehair interlining. The bag was a bit too 'floppy' and needed some help to stand up properly for packing. I just don't know what it needed......

[Emily Burns]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Mr. Knopp,
I'd like to echo Miz Lawson's question about the lining of the wool bag. . . 'tis Christmas time and I guess farmers, tavernkeepers and cavalrymen could all use a handy valise.

Kind regards,

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Found this interesting -probable English civilian make valise on Old South Antiques web site.........It has a credible history...........

Imported CS Valise (Imported from England)
This valise has a well documented and remarkable history. Its history is documented in two ways. The first is the ink inscription written on the top of the inner closure flap; it reads: ““J.C. Stribling R. M. A. _H_ SCV”” this inscription translates into Jesse Cornelius Stribling, Rutledge Mounted Rifles South Carolina Volunteers.
Jesse Cornelius Stribling was born in Oconee County, South Carolina to Thomas Majors and Mary Jones Stribling on September 24, 1844. At the age of 19 he served as one of the youngest members of Orr’’s Regiment, Mounted Rifles. Later he was active in the red shirt movement to combat South Carolina’’s carpet bag rule in 1876. He married Virginia Hunter after the War and lived at ““Sleepy Hollow”” on Eighteen Mile Creek, a few miles north of Pendleton, South Carolina. He died in 1927 at the age of 82 and is buried at Pendleton Presbyterian Church where his tombstone lists him as being in Co. G 7th SC Cavalry.
The foregoing sketch was taken from Striblings in South Carolina at the Pendleton District Historical Commission.
J.C. Stribling shows up in the Confederate roster as a member of the Rutledge Mounted Riflemen & Horse Artillery, Trenholm’’s Company and in the 7th SC Cavalry, Co. G. Jesse C. Stribling shows up in the roster as a member of 1st (Orr’’s) Rifles, Company E. I believe all three are the same man serving in separate units at different times during the War. In later years he was commander of the Sally Simpson Camp Confederate Veterans in Pendleton.
A more detailed history was found written in pencil on a large piece of paper folded up inside the valise. It reads: ““Cavalry Valise Part of the equipment used by Rutledge Mounted Riflemen and Horse Artillery and was imported from England by the Trenholm’’s Blockade runner and presented to Trenholm’’s squadron by George A. Trenholm* to above command. This valise was carried through the war by JC Stribling ----------Brigade. The reverse of the document is signed JC Stribling””. George Trenholm apparently equipped the entire unit as it is also known as Trenholm's Company Militia. There was also a Rutledge Cavalry, likely these Mounted Rifles, Artillery and Cavalry were intended to form the Rutledge Legion, but apparently never did so officially. The Clarendon (SC) Chronicle May 21,1975 records that the ““7th S.C. Cavalry - Col. W.P. Shingler, Lieut. A.C. Haskell, Major Edw. M. Boykin, was organized in April, 1864 by the consolidation of five companies which formed Cavalry Battalion of the Holcombe Legion,(and) the two companies of the squadron, Rutledge Mounted Rifles, under Capts. Trenholm and Jeffers, the latter being preceded by J.J. McGee”

George A Trenholm was a cotton broker for John Frser & Co in Charleston SC. When the war broke out Fraser became the Confederate Gov’t’s overseas banker and financed a fleet of blockade runners. Trenholm was later Confederate Secretary of the Treasury.
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Valises were probably more common than we reenactors typically exemplify.

Ken R Knopp

[volcav]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

OK, I'll be the one to ask this. Would a valise be appropriate for Federal Cavalry too? I've never seen one in pictures or read about Federal Cavalry having them. But then this is the first documentation I've seen on the CS issuing them. I'd heard about valises being used back then but I'd never seen any originals or documentation until today. Pretty interesting stuff.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Jerry,

Absolutely yes, it would be appropriate for a federal impression. In fact they were specially designed to wrap around the back of the cantle of the Grimsley saddle and were seen frequently. Especially favored and used by federal officers.

Thanks for asking,
Mark

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

But how common were they for regular Federal cavalrymen who had been issued the M1859 McClellan horse equipments? I'm sort of with Jerry here... I don't recall that I've ever seen a Federal enlisted man with a valise in any photos. Though the saddle bags seem common. Officers, of course, are a different beast completely. I'd argue that the valise was probably just as common as saddle bags (if not moreso) with Federal officers. I think Jerry's question had more to do with what was PEC for the Federal enlisted man in the ranks.