Valises & saddle bags

[volcav]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

I was actually thinking more toward the enlisted. I think a simple version of a valise is something I could make fairly easily. But since I generaly do Federal enlisted would it be appropriate as Larry said with a Mac equipment set?

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Jerry, others here are much more knowledgeable about Federal cavalry than I, but I would offer this one word of caution. Avoid the questionalble, uncommon, unorthodox or undocumented whenever possible. If we know that saddle bags were the issue item with the M59 Mac equipments, and they are commonly seen in period photographs, go with the documented. Remember, we are striving for what was period, everyday and common.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Thanks Larry for clarifying that with the commonality of the item.

My reply was in direct response to Jerry's question: "Would a valise be appropriate for Federal Cavalry too?" And, of course it would be appropriate, but maybe not the best suited for the average trooper. This also would be impacted by the particular role in question. Yes, an officer, but also if riding as Courier, Staff, Escort, etc. the use and issuance of a valise could come into play. Plus there were thousands of those made and when you look at their popularity in earlier wars, and the heavy issuance in the artillery, then they would have been around in some number.

But, again yes, the rank-in-file trooper would not have had them in any great numbers.

I believe Jerry also stated later that he wanted more the standard enlisted look..

Good stuff fellas.

Mark

[volcav]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

It would seem that from what we've discussed here and in other threads that this might be a time and place specific sort of thing that someone could do on the federal side. For instance when it can be documented that this or that unit was issued a civilian model saddle in leau of a Mac due to shortages as was the case in the western theater but I wouldn't think they'd have been found much in the eastern theater closer to the origin of supplies. Again, I'm looking at this from the federal side.

Just as a related aside. This might have something to do with the low numbers of haversacks seen in western confederate cav as noted by Ken in his article on haversacks. If a cavalryman had a valise on his saddle would he bother with a haversack hanging off of his person? It seems to me the two items would serve a similar purpose.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Mark, I understand your point, and I agree. The valise was a great items, well liked, but probably not the most common for the everyday regular Federal trooper in the ranks.

Jerry, I'd say that the lack of haversacks probably had more to do with the lack of materials to keep them in ready supply (they do wear out quickly), the ability to share with your messmates, and the added hassle of one getting in the way while mounted. I'm not sure that the prevelance of a valise had much to do with it. Valises and saddle bags held odds and ends, like small personal effects or maybe a change of socks, and haversacks held rations. It irritates me to no end to see a farb show up with a haversack full of his personal effects and little, to no, period rations. The soldier on the march was normally issued several days rations. If you've ever been issued three days worth of salt pork, coffee, hardtack, dried vegetables, etc., you'll know that it fills up a haversack pretty quickly. Not much room in a valise or saddle bags with personal effects. Besides, who wants their toothbrush to taste like hog fat?

[Tom Craig]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Hey All,

For what it's worth, I have never seen documentation on Federal enlisted men having valises. Nor have I seen any photograps of any such thing. I am certain that some one, somewhere had one, but it is by far not common. For that matter, in a survey of officer photos they are really quite rare as well. If anything, I am sure that you'd find they were an early war 'doo-dad' as many troopers tended to place their sleeping blanket under the saddle and carrying as little as possible, thus eliminating the utility of having a valise.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Outrider]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

I agree with Tom about the Federal Cav and valises .

Maybe I shouldnt even mention this because I cant for the life of me remember what the scource was, where I read it, or who it was referring too, I know its been years ago, but unless I have finally lost my mind completey, I have somewhere read a reference to -I believe-a Western Theater Confederate Cav trooper ( Wheeler's?) using a found/captured Federal Knapsack rolled up as a "valise" and commenting that that is what some of the boys were doing. I am searching everywhere for it and will post it if I find the reference.

That is a great idea when you think about it.

[TexCavly]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Here's a yankee with a valise but obviously an officer. http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pp...500/27526v.jpg

[mdstribling]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Found this interesting -probable English civilian make valise on Old South Antiques web site.........It has a credible history...........

Imported CS Valise (Imported from England)
This valise has a well documented and remarkable history. Its history is documented in two ways. The first is the ink inscription written on the top of the inner closure flap; it reads: ““J.C. Stribling R. M. A. _H_ SCV”” this inscription translates into Jesse Cornelius Stribling, Rutledge Mounted Rifles South Carolina Volunteers.
Jesse Cornelius Stribling was born in Oconee County, South Carolina to Thomas Majors and Mary Jones Stribling on September 24, 1844. At the age of 19 he served as one of the youngest members of Orr’’s Regiment, Mounted Rifles. Later he was active in the red shirt movement to combat South Carolina’’s carpet bag rule in 1876. He married Virginia Hunter after the War and lived at ““Sleepy Hollow”” on Eighteen Mile Creek, a few miles north of Pendleton, South Carolina. He died in 1927 at the age of 82 and is buried at Pendleton Presbyterian Church where his tombstone lists him as being in Co. G 7th SC Cavalry.
The foregoing sketch was taken from Striblings in South Carolina at the Pendleton District Historical Commission.
J.C. Stribling shows up in the Confederate roster as a member of the Rutledge Mounted Riflemen & Horse Artillery, Trenholm’’s Company and in the 7th SC Cavalry, Co. G. Jesse C. Stribling shows up in the roster as a member of 1st (Orr’’s) Rifles, Company E. I believe all three are the same man serving in separate units at different times during the War. In later years he was commander of the Sally Simpson Camp Confederate Veterans in Pendleton.
A more detailed history was found written in pencil on a large piece of paper folded up inside the valise. It reads: ““Cavalry Valise Part of the equipment used by Rutledge Mounted Riflemen and Horse Artillery and was imported from England by the Trenholm’’s Blockade runner and presented to Trenholm’’s squadron by George A. Trenholm* to above command. This valise was carried through the war by JC Stribling ----------Brigade. The reverse of the document is signed JC Stribling””. .....
-------------------------------

Valises were probably more common than we reenactors typically exemplify.

Ken R Knopp

Greetings Folks!

New feller here. I'm very interested in the valice you posted that belonged to col Stribling.

He was my great (not sure now many greats) grandfather.

I have been to the homeplace in Pendleton (Sleepy Hollow) when it was owned by Prof Dan Boone (professor of poultry science at clemson Univ.).

I wonder if I might =mpose upon you to post a photo oh the script where Col Stribling signed the inside?

Thanks!

Michael Stribling
Spartanburg SC

[1stOVIGuard]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

I know that this does not involve cavalry but as some input and hopeful direction for someone else who may garnish use [I]A Captive of War[I] describes on page 42 that Hospital Steward of the 17 OVI Solon Hyde had a valise that he stored papers, pictures, and clothing in. I did not want to mention this as a rule but as a possibility and a specific case. Interested parties can read the entire book on Google Books and can use this link
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fm1...ed=0CDAQ6AEwAA[/SIZE]

[malachi]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Gents, I am having a painted cloth valise made, and need to know a couple of things before my guy can begin work. I wanted to have a painted cloth body with leather ends, and three billets closing it. My questions are:
1) were they unlined for enlisted men? I've always assumed they were.
2) were the ends concave or convex when viewed from the outside?
3)what did the opening look like? I have seen the fine images provided by Ken, but those are leather or wool. In an enlisted man's model, is the opening rectangular, or a slit or what???
4)how much overlap did the storm flap have over the opening when strapped shut?
Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
God Bless,
Greg Tucker

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Valises & saddle bags

Greg,

Sorry...being brief here...IN short, there are no hard and fast rules with this pattern. These valises came in "many" shapes and sizes, were made at many arsenals, by contractors and by individuals with limited or sometimes shortage driven material expediencies...

1) were they unlined for enlisted men? I've always assumed they were.
A: Either way. Your choice but likely lined more often than not.
2) were the ends concave or convex when viewed from the outside?
A: Does not matter.
3)what did the opening look like? I have seen the fine images provided by Ken, but those are leather or wool. In an enlisted man's model, is the opening rectangular, or a slit or what???
A: The opening can be a slit or just a flap as desired. Variances in details were common.

4)how much overlap did the storm flap have over the opening when strapped shut?
A: Generally about 3 inches. Sometimes more or less.

Again, not many concrete rules here. I have never seen any firm and detailed orders on the subject, only a handfull survive and literally (though similar) no two of those are exactly alike so.....
one has to "surmise" or make a composite of a few of the details. It would be simple to spot a "junk" reproduction (hardware and craftsmanship are the key to a good repro) but with some details its not necessarily wrong to make an assumption. Sometimes its all we have.

Ken R Knopp