Help with tack piece

[cprljohnivey]

Sorry for my ignorance as I am a ground pounder but I need help identifying a piece of tack and where I can get a re-pop. I don't even know what to search it under using the search function.

What is the heart shaped brass piece called on the leather straps that cross in front of the horse below the neck called? Where can I get one? I have a client who has horses and is looking for one of these. Please post responce or PM me if you wish.

Thanks,

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Help with tack piece

The piece of tack is a Martingale. The brass heart plate I think you can get from a variety of vendors, sutlers. A goodly number came up when I did an internet search

None on are on the approved vendors list, but its out there.

[cprljohnivey]

Re: Help with tack piece

Thanks,

This is for a client who is not a reenactor... just likes them because she saw them in movies and wants to put it on her saddle so I'm trying to help her out.

Thanks,

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Help with tack piece

Id try Blockade Runner then... they have them

[Jerry Ross]

Re: Help with tack piece

I think it is called a breast strap. Visit Karl Pepper and www.glennpierdepot.us
He will Make you one . I think the heart shaped federal version is for a offficers saddle if I am thinking correctly.

[August77]

Re: Help with tack piece

I just got a dozen Martingale hearts in, as I will be putting together some breast straps in the weeks to come. I would be glad to supply you with just the heart. In my opinion, these are very good reproductions that are made in America with brass wires on the reverse for mounting and not chicago screws like some reproductions. Drop me a line if you're interested.

[Custerboy]

Re: Help with tack piece

I think it is called a breast strap. Visit Karl Pepper and www.glennpierdepot.us
He will Make you one . I think the heart shaped federal version is for a offficers saddle if I am thinking correctly.

The brass heart was standard issue for all Federal cavalry.

[Andrew German]

Re: Help with tack piece

Hello James,

Could you provide some documentation for that? I've never seen breast straps or brass hearts listed in the ordnance records of horse equipments issued. Nor have I ever found the need to ride with one.

Andrew German

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Help with tack piece

I find it hard to believe that the experienced A/C cav guys haven't jumped all over this!

I don't think so...brass hearts that is.

It's always been my understanding then the brass heart is a reenactorism. There is no - as in "zero" documentation of these ever being seen in any photos from the period.

The breast strap was NOT an issue item, let alone the brass heart breast straps. Breast straps, is used at all were private purchase.

A much more common solution - for which there is photo documentation was to use the standard issue sircingle (Sircingles WERE a standard issue item!!!) and use it as a breast strap by looping it around the horse's chest and affixing both ends to the saddle.

Brass heart breast straps are considered farb by knowledgeable cav guys

[August77]

Re: Help with tack piece

I don't think so...brass hearts that is.

It's always been my understanding then the brass heart is a reenactorism. There is no - as in "zero" documentation of these ever being seen in any photos from the period.

Brass heart breast straps are considered farb by knowledgeable cav guys

You'll have to do some scrolling on these pages but....

One dug from Brandy Station, VA: http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/c0024.html

One dug from Shiloh: http://www.dixielandrelics.com/Dug.htm

They may not have been an issue item but breast straps and hearts existed. And they were in use before the CW as shown by the Co. A Martingale dug from a pre-CW site on this page:

http://www.treasurenet.com/westeast/200003/relichunter/

I've had a few people ask me about breast straps as I am trying to revive some of the F. Burgess & Co. catalog, which is why I had to acquire some hearts. This was one of the items previously offered through them, however I am at the beginning of my research journey so hopefully I will be more enlightened on this topic soon. Until then I will keep an eye on this post to see what other information the fine folks of the AC come up with.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Help with tack piece

Guys,

It has always been my understanding that the brass heart martingale is pre-civil war and it was only issued with the Grimsley horse equipments. I believe that the hearts on the Grimsley accouterments were to have either the regiment number or company letter on them. (I use believe because don't recall exactly and I don't have the information/documentation handy.)

A good friend of mine owns an original officers martingale that is shaped to lay close to the horses neck not across his shoulders, it's very well crafted out of wool and backed with fine glove thin leather with a thin brass heart. If anything the plain leather type we see in reeacting today would be more of a private purchase type martingale, but generally the construction is too modern western. The originals no where resembles the heavy steer tripping collars being readily made today. The common reproductions are too low on the horses shoulders. I feel it’s safe to say martingales were not issued with McClellan’s during the Civil War.

For those that have never see a heart breast collar or martingale in a period image I can provide at least five pictures of what looks to be a brass heart martingale and at least that many more with what looks like a leather heart at the center, these are primarily on officers mounts but it provides the bases that these type martingales were out there…

All my best, TEH

Find common ground, then educate the uneducated.

[csabugler]

Re: Help with tack piece

Zack and all, seems I recall Coley saying one time that on original breats straps, the pieces running up to the saddle were cut on a curve for a better fit to the neck as opposed to wearing on the shoulders.
Seems like ordinance reports often showed lots of cruppers and circingles, but few breast straps. I'm sure some of you have those reports on hand, I do not.
Again, I could be wrong.

[Andrew German]

Re: Help with tack piece

Greetings again.

Regarding the federal issue of McClellan saddles, the ordnance reports are a bit cryptic. They enumerate saddles, sweat leathers, stirrups, girths, and surcingles, but for the most part do not mention cruppers, saddlebags, or carbine sockets (although some later reports do have categories for sockets and saddlebags). At the same time, a bid for a saddle contract that came up for sale recently, included the crupper and carbine socket as part of the saddle, so possibly they were implied in the "saddle" category.

However, in neither the ordnance reports nor the saddle contract bid, nor the specifications for horse equipments in the 1861 Army Regulations were breast straps included. As mentioned, most of the breast straps seen in photos of enlisted horses were modified surcingles, and if breast straps were commonly issued those hearts would be found all over the place.

Andrew German

[yeoman]

Re: Help with tack piece

Sir, the book "Civil War Collectors Encyclopedia" by Francis A. Lord page 126 has illastrations of McClellan equipments with saddles for field and regimental staff officers plus general staff officers. Page 129 shows collection of cavalry rosettes and martingale hearts. Thanks

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Help with tack piece

The brass hearts that you reference were most likely on officer's private purchase breast straps.

Since breast strap usage by enlisted personnel would have been dictated by private purchase, one would reason that a private would purchase the most economical available, if he purchased one at all. There is much greater photographic evidence of sircingles being used as breast straps in the ranks, as it was an issue item.

I don't recall Hank Kluin doing an enlisted breast strap with a brass heart.

Again, most of the A/C cav community considers brass heart breast strap usage by enlisted person to be a reenactorism.