An image

[GeraldTodd]

The attached image was sent to me with questions about what it was. The sender thought it was post-war, but I don't know why.

Besides civilian headgear (on the horse) and what appears to me to be a 59 Mac and crupper, a nice color wash, and some painted on details; I couldn't say much about the image.

So, it's posted here for you folks to look over. :)

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: An image

Hi,

It's a cool photo. The trooper appears to be wearing his issue blouse tucked into his trousers. It must have been a popular thing to do, because I have seen several Federal cavalry images with men doing this. Like you said Mr. Todd, I really do not know why someone would think this is a post war image.

[Andrew German]

Re: An image

Hi Jerry,

It is a cool image, and a puzzle. The horse has an upside-down neck, looking more issue than proud private owner. It does look like a Mac saddlebag, even if the rest of the saddle is obscured. The headgear is less wartime issue. I don't see a halter, and the bit doesn't ride as expected. He also has a breast strap and what looks like a running martingale, neither of which would be issued to an enlisted man. Nor, considering that this is the off side in a tintype, does he have a sabre or a lead strap in evidence.

I'll be interested to hear other impressions.
Andrew German

[Ken Knopp]

Re: An image

Yes, very nice image. Is it just me or do I see a cartridge box behind him at low back area, a holster at his side but a pistol stuck in his belt at front? Admittedly, I know knowing of period photography but what about the blue colorization noted on his trousers and elsewhere that obscures these items?
As to the horse equipments I concur and note the non-issue bridle appears to have rounded leather reins and headstall and further includes a non-issue martingale.
If appearances matter, this sleek horse could "run".
Great image. Wish folks would post more of these.

Ken R Knopp

[AZFarrier]

Re: An image

I also noticed the civilian breast strap, the running martingale and the roached mane of his mount, god I hope my butt doesn't look that big when I ride (looks like mostly the pants).
I also would like to comment on the pained gient spanish rowels on his spurs, I am not certain either way if he was wearing spanish spurs.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: An image

Ken, I thought it looked as if he had the pistol in his hand...Do i see a trigger guard and cylinder just below the colored ring on his finger? 1858 Remington, looks like it has a top strap? I like the added Spanish style spurs... Citizen bit and breast plate... Thanks for sharing, it's now in the "period mounted images" file... TEH

[john.vansickle]

Re: An image

As Zack and Andy pointed out, the spur rowels would be typically Spanish, however, since they're retouched, it's impossible to tell if that's what they are or if they're an artist's exaggeration. As far as it being a McClellan, it looks as though it is, although obscured. Looking at the picture, it looks like it has the jockeys/skirts of the M1857 or '59/64. The M1857 saddle has small square saddle bags, but the equipment could easily be mix and matched from whatever was available, including pieces of civilian tack. In 1872, the jockey/skirts were removed and replaced with an exposed, British style center-fire rigging. The McClellan remained essentially unchanged until the M1904. Model 1874, and possibly some M1885 saddles were made with rebuilt M1859/64 trees. Since Civil War equipment is known to have been issued unaltered throughout the 1870's the best clue would be his weapon, which is absent. Another clue might be the background. This is obviously a region that is well watered, so it would eliminate much of the West. It could be very likely that if this is post-war, it was taken during the reconstruction period of a trooper involved in "security and stabilization" operations in the Deep South. There would have been little change from the war-time equipment, methods of use, or even personnel.

As some say, "Mileage may vary".

John Van Sickle

[Ken Knopp]

Re: An image

Zack, your right, I completly missed the pistol in his hand. However, I am still a bit fuzzy about what appears to be another pistol in his belt. It seems to be a pistol but colored with the blue tinting. Can anyone else see what appears to be a barrel and cylinder about where his navel would be?
As for the roached mane, I may be mistaken here but it appears to me that the mane is not roached by simply laying over the other side of the neck. Anyone else?
As always, I hope that he doesn't end up having two pistols.....its just more "justification" for the multiple pistol carrying reenactor to point to and exclaim "historical photographic evidence"! (no, forget I said that....I don't want to stir that up again!)
LOVE the blending of civilian and issue for a "Federal" soldier! Would be nice to see "some" of that in the field.

Ken R Knopp

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: An image

To me it looks like a staged photo. The guy could not possibly ride and stay on with a seat like that. His legs are straight and his toes are pointed into the stirrup. Obviously (to me at least) its not his tack.

I'm not so sure its a `Mac he's riding either. Look at how high the pommel and cantle are. They both appear to be much higher than any the standard Mac tree.

Ken I do not think there are a cartridge box behind him. If it was, what is it hanging on, I see no evidence of a belt or sling. I onder if the image of the "box" is more of the black streaking so prevalent on the image.

Dave Myrick

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: An image

Okay, I've blown the image up to 400% its original size... Dave I have to disagree, I'm certain it's a Mac saddle. Look at the seat of the saddle bags, where they cross the saddle tree. From where this piece crosses the tree in comparison to the height of the cantle, the cantle is relatively low... I do agree with you about the proposed cartridge box, there is something there but I don't see it as a cartridge box. Any ideas on what it is under his elbow? Are the two items actually one? Ken I see what you think is a pistol, but I don't think it is one. Something is there though; I just can't tell what it is... Andrew you said "his issue blouse [is]... tucked into his trousers... I have seen several Federal cavalry images with men doing this." I have over a hundred period mounted CW images on my hard drive and I've never seen this practice. Please share!!! If I can figure out how to post an image I'll pass a few cool ones along... later, TEH

[GeraldTodd]

Re: An image

His jacket appears bloused, probably because of his belt, which I can't actually see. There appears to be the point of a holster under his arm and a box on his back-side - a pistol box maybe? There's also a cap pouch up front. These items would imply the existence of a belt - seen or not.

The revolver in his hand looks like a Smith&Wesson to me - any takers?

The Mac seemed obvious to me - it was the horse's head gear that caught my eye.

As for the boy's seat - he's not riding, he's posing.

There's not really anything that unusual about the image. A soldier on a horse with some civilian tack. I'm leaning towrd his being a cavalryman as the jacket looks like a mounted service jacket and the lack of trim showing probably means it's yellow.

I attached the image rotated to make the roof top level, enlarge 200%, and converted to greyscale

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: An image

The revolver in his hand looks like a Smith&Wesson to me - any takers?

No, it's too big for a Civil War era S&W. The #2 "belt-sized" revolver was about the same frame size as a Colt 1849 Pocket, with a 6" barrel. Plus, it had a spur trigger, no guard.