So this is probably hopeless...

[Outrider]

But I will ask anyway..

Does anyone here know of anyone either making or selling a decent (authenticity wise) pair of either gauntlets or period leather gloves of some sort?

I want some.

[Spinster]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

I don't think this is what you had in mind, but, for awhile Chris Utley stocked men's leather dress gloves that he imported. Think period businessman more than cavalryman though.......

[Outrider]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Thanks Terre.
I emailed Justin about those gloves. You are correct . That is not really what I had in mind but I know of no others to be found anywhere. In all my years of 'enacting I have seen very very few correct gloves of any kind. Why that is I dont know but tsk tsk..tis a shame.

[Spinster]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Patrick,

If you are really intent, here's how I'd go about it--go over the mountain to Fort Payne, once the land of 10,000 sock knitting machines. Talk up some old timers and find the ones who also worked in the glove factories. Somewhere in all that good-timing, you'll find someone who still has sizing patterns and a glovers machine--then look to what its going to take to extend those patterns to the profile needed for period gauntlets.

This will take some doing, and you will have to present your down home bonafides--a lot of those gentlemen took the NAFTA fiasco to heart, and they'd rather take a sledge to a working machine and sell it for scrap than take a larger price and watch it go out of country.

Sock machine at my house, but no glover......

[mslaird]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Patrick,

If you will give me a bit more time to work on it, I have noticed this problem as well when I needed some gauntlets. I have been working on patterning a pair and I have already made a prototype glove out of cotton to see if it will work out. I am dealing with the kinks and de-bugging the pattern (the thumb is the problem at present) but I will succeed pretty soon. I am planning to make a trip up to Springfield leather to select some good lambskin to make them out of and I will make the first leather pair to see how they hold up.

[Outrider]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Thank you Matthew and I will certainly be looking foward to seeing what you come up with. When you achieve victory count me as your first customer Sir!
This is something I have always noticed and never really understood why. Its not just military style gauntlets either but plain old everyday work gloves etc. For such a common item , surely available in any mercantile or dry goods, It has always puzzled me as to why noone has done what you are attempting to do yourself. I realize cost must be a factor but since when does that stop anyone in the authentic crowd? If the gauntlets workout to your satisfaction perhaps also looking into other styles is a possibilty? All those cattle drovers, farmers , horsemen etc . etc. had something to protect their hands or at least one would think so.

Terre, thanks for the idea. I actually have friends in the Ft Payne area. Haven't made it over the big cloudy mountain in quite a while. Maybe heres a good reason to go for a visit. Have you any leads to any of those good ole boys ?

thanks,

[Spinster]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Terre, thanks for the idea. I actually have friends in the Ft Payne area. Haven't made it over the big cloudy mountain in quite a while. Maybe heres a good reason to go for a visit. Have you any leads to any of those good ole boys ?

thanks,

Not really--and even though I'm from two mountains over, on Brindlee, lived and worked on Sand for a number of years, summered occassionally at Valley Head, and even did accounting work for some of those shuttered sock mills in their heyday..........I had to go through a third party. Those old boys are serious about not allowing any more jobs to ship out cheaply.

I'd start though, at some of those antiques and junk places in the old mills. And end up at the Senior Center right around lunch time...., or at your friend's granmaw's house......

I'll also give the Winston county area a look-see next time I go through. Shuttered buildings there that say things like "Glove Mill No. 5"

[csabugler]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

The other Patrick,

The near complete lack of decent gloves does seem odd, always has. Suppose maybe that so many really bad suttler type patterns have soiled the linens so to speak? Maybe nobody is willing to take a chance at being lumped in with those other makers.

[T.Kern]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Gauntlets were nearly unheard of for the enlisted man in CS cavalry. While they could and were to some extent requisitioned for Federal. The problem has long been the lack of skilled craftsmen to produce such an item. Whether a gauntlet or just a plain glove, these things fit "like a Glove" something we do not see today, nor do we see the quality of leather. But most of all is the lack of an accurate pattern for gauntlets. Gloves were difficult to make and of course like good footwear, hand made and made to order. The difficulty for most today is that glove of the period had pieces between the fingers ( I don't even remember the french terms quarte or fasche...something like that) and another separate piece between the base of the fingers and then the thumb and bringing that together well, it's just not done today.

Todd Kern

[Outrider]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Thanks Todd. Your point is well taken but I should make it clear that military gauntlets ARE NOT what I am interested in so much but I do admit to being curious as to why they are not reproduced and as far as I know never have been at least accurately. The lack of ANY style of period correct gloves is what has me scratching my head.

I know they (gauntlets) are almost unheard of with CS cav. When I posted this originally, cavalry was far from my mind as I have to admit it is more often than not these days.

[Spinster]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Okay, that gives me a bit more to go on--since the thread is under the cav forum, I just assumed we were talking military issue

Last week, I saw an original pair of southern gauntlets with solid provenance. I was much more focused on the textiles on the group, but I did note that the 'skirts' ? of the glove were a different leather than the hand of the glove--not only in weight, but in color. In fact, to me they seemed to be added to a pair of dress gloves by an amateur hand.

I'll be back in that collection within the next few months and will look more closely and get some notes.

[CJSchumacher]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

The difficulty for most today is that glove of the period had pieces between the fingers ( I don't even remember the french terms quarte or fasche...something like that) and another separate piece between the base of the fingers and then the thumb and bringing that together well, it's just not done today.

Todd Kern

I believe you are referring to quirks and forchettes. There was some question as to the kid gloves spoken about earlier and whether or not they were correctly constructed with both quirks and forchettes. Forchettes being the side finger pieces and quirks being small triangle, gusset-like pieces at the base of the forchettes.

Gloves were made with this feature more often up through the earlier 20th century, but as Todd said...not so much these days.

[csabugler]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

I'll be back in that collection within the next few months and will look more closely and get some notes.

My dear Mrs. lawson, I am a bit cunundrified with this remark. Are you refering that you will have the opportunity to delve "in" that collection again, or are you actually "in" the collection??? :D

[PogueMahone]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Gloves were difficult to make and of course like good footwear, hand made and made to order.

This isn't a subject I'm real familiar with, but when I read that sentence, it just didn't sound right to me. With the availability of men's ready-to-wear clothing, I would think gloves would be easier to obtain than "made-to-order". I know I've seen ads in newspapers for "Men's Gloves" and I was always under the impression that these gloves were "in stock".

I found a couple of things that support me:

From The Glove Association Website

By the middle of the 19th Century the methods began to change. The most significant of these was the establishment of glove sizes and method of cutting, which was devised by a French Master Glover, Xavier Jouvin (1800 - 1844). He made use of uniformly proportioned knives, graded for size, giving a constant shape for the makers and establishing a reliable fit. Formerly, gloves were regarded as a contingency merchandise. To find a pair which fitted adequately, one had to try on several gloves. Now every hand could easily find the pair for its size.

Since 1775 inventors had sought to develop a sewing machine for making gloves but failed. In 1834 a two-thread machine was introduced into the gloving industry, for sewing the points on the back of the glove. A variety of other machines followed which enabled the operator to make complete gloves.

And this tidbit on the history of gloves from: Luxury Magazine website

In 1807 James Winter, an Englishman, invented a machine to produce leather gloves. And rubber gloves were licensed after.

So, I'm thinking that men's gloves were being mass produced by 1860 and were available in ready-made stores for purchase. However, I could be wrong. God knows I was wrong about houses. Apparently I've never seen a house.

[Outrider]

Re: So this is probably hopeless...

Mr Smotherman came to the same conclusions I did.
Somewhere out there in cyber land ( I honestly dont remember where) I read an inventory list of a mercantile in Nashville and gloves were listed. Now it didn't say what kind of gloves but just seeing them listed got me to wondering if such a common thing wasnt mass produced by the time of the war.

As for gauntlets- I have had the opportunity to see three pair of originals recently and one was as Mrs. L describes with the cuff being of a different weight and color than the "fingers". The other thing that has stuck with me is that the other two pair (all provenanced to federals btw) were in pattern remarkably similar to some of those crappy sutler row ones we have all seen to many off. I would go as far as to say that with a different leather and perhaps finer construction techniques, many I have seen would not be all far off at all.

I do have pics but have no idea how to go about posting them on here or any other forum.

I realize now that I should have started this thread in a different folder but thought at the time that someone in cav might be able to shed some light on this for me.

I just cannot believe that gloves whether they be dress gloves or ordinary "work" gloves would not have been readily available...at least pre-war.

thanks for everyones comments