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Civillian saddles in the Union Army

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  • #31
    Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

    My great, great grandfather, Adam Ellis, enlisted in the Federal 1st KY Cavalry July 27, 1861. His muster sheets state that he furnished his own horse and horse equipment. I would assume this included a saddle. This notation is included all the way to August of '64. Value of horse was $165. The notation also usually states he received no pay for the horse.

    Hopefully this will be of interest: from Tarrant's Wild Riders of the First Kentucky Cavalry "On the 9th of August, the regiment moved to Marietta to make preparations to return to Kentucky. Although most of the boys owned their own horses at the time, yet as Gen. Sherman needed them for future operations, it was necessary for them to be turned over to the government. In ordinary civil transactions it generally takes two to make a contract, but in this case it only took the stronger party to decide the terms of the trade — that is the government. Though some few of the men objected, yet for the sake of peace and harmony with Uncle Sam, they submitted without many murmurs."

    "The 12th and 13th of August was spent in inspecting, branding, and delivering them to their new owner, the government. The 14th was employed in boxing up our saddles and making other preparations. The 16th was occupied in investigating the title of each soldier to his horse."

    Timothy H. Downey

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: BUMP Civillian saddles in the Union Army

      Bump... This was a very informative discussion. John, I've searched high and low to find the West point cadet image... is it published? Can you give us some clue as to where it is? Also Stuart Lillie has a horned saddle dated to 1859 from Penn. The original along with his reproduction can be seen at the link below. We've been discussing a reproduction with a more original shaped horn. Z

      [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
      [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

      Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

      "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

        Does anyone know why Lillie is using the lighter colored leather? Doesn't most of his repros have the tan colored leather? It appears the original is in black leather.

        Dan
        Dan Chmelar
        Semper Fi
        -ONV
        -WIG
        -CIR!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

          According to Stuart, it appears that the original was fair colored originally. Over time, oiling and wear has darkened it. I wish there were a few more views of it. Z
          [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
          [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

          Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

          "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

            I agree with wishing we had more views. The saddle looks so dark and evenly darkened that it almost appears black to start, but then again I have not viewed it first hand like he has.
            Dan
            Dan Chmelar
            Semper Fi
            -ONV
            -WIG
            -CIR!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

              "I work him often and monitor his feed "

              Good for you Mr. Lid and Well Done.

              This is indeed all too rare among mounted reenactors and unfortunately the horse then often gets the blame when things go awry on the field ,during drill or on a pickett line.
              Patrick McAllister
              Saddlebum

              "Bíonn grásta Dé idir an diallait agus an talamh

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                I just found what looks to be another Texas pattern saddle on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Old-Antique...item2eaf0048b0

                It is listed as 1870's, but this same type would have been previlent in the 1860's correct?
                Dan Chmelar
                Semper Fi
                -ONV
                -WIG
                -CIR!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army


                  All sorts of interesting saddles on Ebay right now,,,,,if they are this period or not, well I'm sure those with more knowledge than myself will chime in on that!
                  Dan Chmelar
                  Semper Fi
                  -ONV
                  -WIG
                  -CIR!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                    Originally posted by bluesuit01 View Post
                    My great, great grandfather, Adam Ellis, enlisted in the Federal 1st KY Cavalry July 27, 1861. His muster sheets state that he furnished his own horse and horse equipment. I would assume this included a saddle. This notation is included all the way to August of '64. Value of horse was $165. The notation also usually states he received no pay for the horse.

                    Hopefully this will be of interest: from Tarrant's Wild Riders of the First Kentucky Cavalry "On the 9th of August, the regiment moved to Marietta to make preparations to return to Kentucky. Although most of the boys owned their own horses at the time, yet as Gen. Sherman needed them for future operations, it was necessary for them to be turned over to the government. In ordinary civil transactions it generally takes two to make a contract, but in this case it only took the stronger party to decide the terms of the trade — that is the government. Though some few of the men objected, yet for the sake of peace and harmony with Uncle Sam, they submitted without many murmurs."

                    "The 12th and 13th of August was spent in inspecting, branding, and delivering them to their new owner, the government. The 14th was employed in boxing up our saddles and making other preparations. The 16th was occupied in investigating the title of each soldier to his horse."

                    Timothy H. Downey
                    My ancestor, Howard Wearren, was a Sergeant and later a Lieutenant in Company A, 11th Kentucky Cavalry (Union). Like Tim's ancestor, his military records credit him for supplying his own horse, and horse equipements. I don't have the papers with me here at work, but I think it also included the saddle.
                    Scott Cross
                    "Old and in the Way"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                      Yep, many did and at about 40 cents a day reimbursement for using their own horse. Provided they ever saw much of that.

                      Dan, when I saw the photo that Zack provided I immediately thought the same thing. It looks too even to have begun as light leather and not dyed. When looking at his (Stuart's) saddles, he seems to go with the light leather often.

                      Mark
                      J. Mark Choate
                      7th TN. Cavalry, Co. D.

                      "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                        I own a Lillie Texas saddle in fair leather and as stated before with oiling and use it has darkened considerably.
                        Chris Fisher
                        Hospital Steward
                        Tinct Opii Mess

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                          Mark and Dan, to me both saddles look like they could be of the period... maybe a bit later, I like the rear "skirt" of the plantation style, similar to the 1850 citizens pattern Mr. Lilie is manufacturing. We really need to get Aden Nichols (formerly Heartland House) or Ken to weigh in here. He, Ken and Stuart are who I consider the experts... I do agree that Stuart tends to go for the fair leather, I'd rather have a darker brown, as I'm trying to avoid a black saddle... ya know, switch up the totally generic impression a bit...
                          [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                          [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

                          Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

                          "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                            Zack,
                            Given what your goals are then that light colored leather would be pretty cool as it is oiled and darkens 'cause it would not darken as dramatically as a typical russet color would and should take on a nice look. However, I might suggest that before you start riding it any you oil it to give some seal to the pores. Otherwise, if something stained it, it would tend to show up and might make it "splotchy" if you get my drift. A good even seasoning to that color would look really nice with a few years on it. You'd be the envy of every kid on the block, ha.

                            BTW, are you coming to the CW Show down here in Franklin this weekend? Ken, Ronnie and I are meeting up with some of the gang on Saturday and one of the fellas has a booth for the unit. We will be handing out flyers on the COI for next March.

                            take care,
                            Mark
                            J. Mark Choate
                            7th TN. Cavalry, Co. D.

                            "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army


                              Another ebay find. Finding all sorts of great stuff on ebay. I think the CS provanance they are attaching to it is pure speculation, but is a nice civi saddle none the less.
                              Dan Chmelar
                              Semper Fi
                              -ONV
                              -WIG
                              -CIR!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Civillian saddles in the Union Army

                                Ohhh.. Dan by far my favorite one yet... Keep them coming. Mark, Yes we're coming down for the show. Niki and I will arrive sometime mid-morning. I don't know if it's still free if we dress out, but I don't believe I'm going to... Hope to catch up with you. Zack
                                [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                                [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

                                Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

                                "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

                                Comment

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