Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

[volcav]

I've searched the forum, every internet source I can think of, and all the books I have on hand and can't find any reference to Federal use of Enfield Carbines or Musketoons.

I did find a document last night among some papers I was going through that shows Kentucky Cavalry U.S. as having Enfield rifles (two band or three is not specified) along with an assortment of other carbines and rifles. The document has the heading of Kentucky National Legion (1865-1867) and was sent to me by another member of the forum several years ago.

Does anyone here have any documentation of Enfield carbines or musketoons being used by Federal forces? Adds to sell them say they were "favorites of Union and Confederate Cavalry" but we all know that doesn't mean it's true.

I found a Parker Hale, Enfield carbine in an antique shop for a good price. I know I can use it for a Confederate impression but I'm wondering about using it as a loner or secondary long arm for a Federal impression too. Any information in this regard would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

Hallo!

At the risk of making a Universal Statement...

The reproduction of the Pattern 1861 Artillery Carbine were never used by American Civil War Federal cavalry.
They were made for the British government, held in store, and later used as the base for Snyder conversions.

Northern import of the P1856 Cavalry Carbine was small- with only 200 being purchased according to purchasing records.

Northern agents purchased 480 P1853 or P1858 Artillery carbines.

Confederate records are a bit sketchier, they having imported thousands of the P1853/1858 artillery and P1856 cavalry carbines. For example, the Payne Papers show between July 1863 and December 1864- 8100 alone were imported through Wilmington, NC.

The use of P1861 4th Model Artillery Carbines by Confederates is a debate, with no real evidence that they were imported, with British government marked originals NUG being held as post War pieces 'back dated" to CS use to run up the price.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[volcav]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

Well, that's helpful. Thanks Curt.

[Joe Walker]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

I don't believe Parker Hale made an Enfield carbine copy. They made the artillery/musketoon, two and three banded rifled muskets. EMF imported the Enfield (smooth bore) repo carbine long ago complete with the hinged rammer. I believe you must have seen the artillery/musketoon.


Joe Walker

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

Hallo!

"I don't believe Parker Hale made an Enfield carbine copy."

Correct, no they didn't.

While we call it a "musketoon," the British referred to their Pattern 1853 Artillery Carbine, 1st Model; the Pattern 1853 Artillery Carbine, Second Model of 1858; and the Pattern 1861 Artillery Carbine (which PH reproduced) as "carbines."

Curt

[csabugler]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

Jerry, interesting question, I'm anxious to see what the research guru's come up with on it. Only a few hundred imported by the feds??
As always, the research of arms and equipment of the fed unit you are portraying at any particular event would determine it's correctness.
If it were me, and it was a good price, I'd pick it up and offer it here if it didn't suit my needs. I never see any good deals...
Patrick

[volcav]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

Thanks for all the input from everyone.

What I have is an 1861 model Parker Hale Enfield. I think Curt and Joe have nailed it as the Artillery Model. The best I can tell, it is one of the ones made on the original equipment in the 1960's or 70's in England. It has no import marks. Either it is one of the afore mentioned or it's an original. My best guess is one of the 1960's or 70's.

When I saw it and started looking it over I hadn't done any real research on it all. I just knew what I'd picked up along the way over the years. I saw 1861, Parker Hale, and no import marks with a $150 price tag. My first thought was "this is an original," and my heart rate went up substantially. The guy at the antique shop had already done some research and told me about the Parker Hales made on the original equipment that were brought in for the 100th anniversary of the Civil War. I also knew what Dixie Gun Works was asking for new replicas and gave the guy what he was asking for it.

It's a project gun due to missing some parts and I've contacted Todd Watts about having it properly restored. I'll be sending it to him through Blockade Runner when I get another job. I had another overseas offer but it fell through so I'm back on the job hunt again.

Curt,
Do those numbers of Federal imports include figures for state supplied troops or are they for regular army only?

The reason I ask is that I know the state of Kentucky purchased Cosmopolitan/Gwyn and Campbell/Union (all different names for the same gun) carbines for issue to Kentucky state troops. The numbers I've seen for federal purchase of the Cosmopolitan are 9,342 according to the book Union Cavalryman 1861-1865 by Philip Katcher and Richard Hook, while the book Cosmopolitan and Gwyn & Campbell Carbines in the Civil War by Thomas Rentschler shows 10,551 being purchased by state and federal forces combined.

Union Cavalryman 1861-1865 lists 10,051 unspecified "Foreign carbines" and 587 unspecified "Musketoons" as being issued but the book doesn't tell who these were issued too.

As an aside I'm surprised to find 121,374 Le Faucheux pistols issued to Federal troops. That's only about 4,000 less than the Remington pistols.

Thanks again for all the input. If anyone has more information it is always welcome. I really enjoy the learning.

[Fenianboy]

Re: Enfield carbines/musketoons in Federal use?

If you go to the old Miller's Photographic History,there is a series of circa 1861 photos of the 22nd NYSM in Harper's Ferry. The best known or at least my recognizable photo of this set has troops in column with the reflections of the saber bayonets on their Enfield rifles. There is however one photo of three men standing and one has the musketoon with fixed bayonet.In Grad School I'd go to the Lirary to study for my comps as my kids didn't want to be quiet so Dad could study.My reward to myself for four hours of hard studying was a half hour with their set of Miller's.That was year's ago pre computers and Millers ruled.inaccurate captioning and all!