Interesting Saddle

[Iron Scout]

Greetings,

Thought Ken and some of the material culture folks might enjoy a few pics taken of this great item. I'll take better images soon and provide additional description but I think it's quite a find. Interested in hearing a few thoughts as I post more on this soon

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Mark Choate]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Some really great photos, Neill.

Do you have any background info on the history of this skeleton rigged Jennifer? With the embossed letter "C" and such I'm intrigued as to the life that it has led. Tree looks in great shape.

Thanks for posting it and I look forward to more to come.

Mark Choate
7th TN.

[Iron Scout]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Here's a few more pics...will provide some interesting observations in detail this evening.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Yes a very nice saddle overall I would think. I too am curious as to its history what with the tooling, double creasing etc. Seems to have been an officer's saddle?

Dave Myrick

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Neill,

Wow! Five stars for posting these photos!!! Great saddle!. Any info on its history would be most welcome and heartily appreciated on this forum.
A couple of observations.....

1.The standard features of this saddle; hardware, screws, stirrup strap hangers, buckles, tree configuration and abbreviated skirts (very Confederate) are "period" and quite similar to CS patterns. While I know that as of this writing no one has attached a legitimate (documented) "CS" moniker to it, I find it interesting that this is the third skeleton Jenifer saddle I have seen with the brass edging. The first (Lt. Yarnell's saddle below) has been billed as CS but is somewhat dubious in its documentation (Aden?). The second one was without any documentation (private collection- photo below) and now this one suggests maybe there is some continuity to this feature. I totally speculating here (there is not enough information to qualify them as anything more) but for discussion purposes it is interesting how similar the three are (especially two in tree configuration). Questions: Why skeleton rigging? Are they Federal or CS? Why the brass edging? Who made them, when and where? etc., etc.

2. Is this one an officer’s saddle? Well, skeleton rigged Jenifers were generally trooper's issue but could be adopted, appropriated or purchased by an officer. Further, by general order abbreviated skirts were a standard component of late war manufactured CS saddles (probably much earlier). Moreover, trooper’s saddles were never embellished at the arsenal with tooling, embossing, extra stitching, leather treatments, fancy hardware, etc. These were not "issue" features but were often added in the field particularly by officers with the "means" to do it.

In any event, there are not many Confederate or period Jenifers out there and certainly much fewer skeleton rigged ones. Tickled to see it!!

Neill, as always....a great contribution! Any more info that can be provided? And,.....again many, many thanks!!

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Iron Scout]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Greetings All,

Many thanks for the responses, especially yours Ken!~ As you guessed, I haven't called this a CS piece as of yet but the details really scream wartime production (of some sort). As we speak, I'm taking some very detailed notes on it's features/details for further posting. That being said, here's what I know so far. I picked up this piece here in Camden, SC, from a fellow that acquired it 30 years ago from an estate sale in Illinois. Unfortunately, when pressed for details they were pretty few and far between given the passage of time. He did know it was labeled a "CW saddle" at the sale.

That being said though, the saddle exhibits frequent use and some possible post-war repairs. Both sides of the quarter straps have riveted reinforcement pieces of leather to hold the straps to the iron D ring. Also, it appears the rear iron footmans loops were attached at time of manufacture but the front ones have been placed over the staple holes once they were pulled out. The majority of the screws are iron less a few brass ones added as old replacements.

I could go into more minute detail but will hold off until later. Did you see the very detailed (12 spi) "6" or "C"? Very nice detail on both abbreviated skirts. I've had several objective folks say they look more like a 6 than C. Would love to know the story behind that.

In short though, here's my feel of the piece. While we'll never fully know, I feel this piece may be a CS officer's saddle manufactured with a minimally (for the time) expensive level of customization given the materials. The stitching on the quarterstraps is 11 spi (interesting, usually 10 or 12?) which is pretty detailed for a general issue piece (could be wrong of course).

I could go on and on but I'm pretty pleased with the find! Ken, I couldn't agree more with the Yarnell saddle. I've searched for him on every SC Dept Archives and History CS roll to no avail. Piece just has an odd feel about it too.

Anyway, more on this later. I'm going to take some more notes tonight and do a little conservation work. Thanks for the feedback!

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Iron Scout]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Hey Folks,

Here's a few more pics of this Jenifer with the interesting stitched 6 or C. You decide but this these are from the underside. Even the underside of the tree is in excellent condition given its age and use. I also included a nice close up of the tooling work/design.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Interesting Saddle

not a horse guy, but it looks like a 6 to me.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Interesting Saddle

Incredibly, by a very strange coincidence another brass bound saddle.....this time, no doubt CS, has JUST surfaced! I just received these photos today! I am sorry the photos are not the best and, I have not photographed, seen or handled this saddle but it is described to me as follows:

*a CS Mac with brass bound edging, "CS" shield "somewhat" of the Richmond Arsenal pattern but tin plated (?); M1859 type mortic plates but with larger slots, one CS style "high neck" wood and hooded stirrup;

* Interestingly, its skirts cover the tree to the front and rear of the bars with a single piece of russet leather, ala", the Jenifer!!! (Hmmmm????) Anyway, the skirts are somewhat abbreviated but the photo makes them look smaller than they really are.

Additional choice observations can be made about this saddle by all of us but in summary you will agree it presents a very unique combination of attributes. What do you all think?

As I said, I have not had the opportunity to view/photograph it first hand but hope to in the near future. In addtion, I hope to post photos of a couple of other saddles this weekend on this forum. One of which has the potential to be quite literally the Confederate saddle "find" of the century! It trully could be that "historic" in nature. It is quite involved so, I will devote a new thread to it when I can get the time to gather up all of the documenation, photos and its story.

Ken R Knopp