Saddle on Ebay

[Old-South]

Check this out.
I wonder if it is anyone from this forum? He mentioned Kenn's book in the description.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Confederate-Artillery-Drivers-Saddle_W0QQitemZ120471595091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0caaa853&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Regards,

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Saddle on Ebay

Other than coming from Gettysburg (dont all relics?) what makes it "Confederate artillery"? This is actually a "wagon saddle" pattern (which likely originated in Pennsylvania) but was commonly made all over the country from the 1700's until the early 20th century.

Early war Confederate artillery saddles were more a copy of the 1840's U.S. artillery pattern than the wagon saddle although they were quite similar.

I am sorry but nothing in the photograph or description documents it as "Confederate".

Now, if someone could please tell me more about its original "bone" stirrups (NOT anywhere in my books) I'd love to know.

You gotta LOVE ebay! Sales and entertainment!

Ken R knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[csabugler]

Re: Saddle on Ebay

It does favor the FEDERAL 1832 driver's saddle. There's only 1 pics in Ken's book, so I can't make out too much detail, but to me the skirts on the "Confederate" overlap the seat by a lot more than the original. Looks like a heavy row of tacks on both sides holding the skirts to the tree. It looks to me like the poor shmoe who rode this would have his butt cheeks ruined by those tack heads. IMHO, I see why it is not common!!!

I looked at my well-worn copy of Kens CS&HE book, and saw the brief description of the First Model Confederate Drivers' saddle. But the text "no documented examples could be located" and well as "likely adopted from" and "probably modeled after" the 1832 leaves me to believe no one alive today knows what a Confederate First Model Driver's saddle looked like. If Ken doesn't know for sure, who does?

Upon rereading Ken's post I noticed that he mentioned the 1840 U.S. pattern but I don't have that book yet, sorry Ken.

So I see 2 probable explanations here:
1) This is an interesting old saddle but not of confederate origin
2) This is the only existing example of this incredibly rare piece.

Now, having read Ken's response and not seeing any indication of a saddle collectors' "woodie", I cannot believe this is a one of a kind rare find. So my long winded and mindless conclusion is, nice piece, but not of confederate origin. The seller has misrepresented Ken's research. If I were Ken I would demand the removal of my good name from this attempted rouse.

But that's just my opinion.

Patrick/Pete

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Saddle on Ebay

Pete, Patrick, Pete Patrickson......(sorry, I am confused),

Thank you for pointing out my error. I meant the 1830's Federal artillery saddle patterns. Sorry, my fault entirely.

You are also right in that I am not aware of any "bona fide" CS artillery saddles of this pattern. Maybe they are out there. My intuition tells me there might be but they are similar to and therefore confused with the wagon saddles but I could be wrong. Fact is, I just dont know. Moreover, saddle variations (then as now) were quite prevelant so without some strong documentation on any given saddle who can know for sure?

Like I have said before, ebay is an entertaining place where sales trump any form of truth. It would be helpful if folks were more honest but as for me, I do not have time nor the desire to police the use of my name or books. Moreover, if you asked the seller he probably would totally believe himself as correct and honest in his assessment. Such is the state of our "reasoned" morality. So, what can one do? For good or bad, at least its publicity.

Thank you "Patrick" !!!

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Outrider]

Re: Saddle on Ebay

and then there is this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-ANTIQUE-TEXAS-ALAMO-HOPE-CAVALRY-SADDLE-CIVIL-WAR_W0QQitemZ160363207950QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2556645d0e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

the other Patrick

[csabugler]

Re: Saddle on Ebay

Ken, I would never be so bold as to imply an error on your part in a discussion of period tack. After I posted that I reread your remarks, and realized I was referencing a potential different Model than you mentioned, and presumed the error were mine!! :o

With the plethora of Patricks these days one can easily get confused. At Paddy McAllisters' insistance ( ) I have taken to clarifying my signature. I suppose he got tired of being blamed for my rediculous remarks.

That's a good looking "Alamo" saddle. It is interesting that at no point in history did anyone ever ride a saddle other than 1861-1865....:D

As you said Ken, Ebay is an entertainment. There is almost always a "rare confederate bugle with blood still on it from an estate sale in the Carolinas".

Patrick/Pete/Peterson/ the fat old one