saddle horn style

[adamandnicole]

Does anyone have any information regarding the "Texas" style saddle pictured on page 77 of Confederate Saddles and Horse Equipment? I really like the design of the tree, but I have never seen any other period photos or existing specimens with that style of arched horn. Would this have been a common civilian style horn? Are there any other examples out there?

Any information is appreciated.

Adam Dickerson

[Ken Knopp]

Re: saddle horn style

Adam,

Here is another saddle with this kind of tree but covered in leather (see photo #1). I have seen one other very similar saddle to the one in my book but I cannot put my hands (mouse) on a photograph.
According to James S Hutchins’ stellar research highlighted in the book MAN MADE MOBILE, this tree configuration is that employed on military Wagon saddles beginning in the 1840's. See the photo #2 below. On the left is a drawing from the MAN MADE MOBILE book of an 1846's Quartermaster sketch of a wagon saddle. On the right is a war time photograph of one of these wagon saddles in use. This was apparently a common pattern but by no means the only pattern used on wagons and certainly, not to be confused with the civilian wagon saddles (see photo #3 below) that was also likely used in the military. The one you reference in my book was finished like a McClellan but it is not clear to me how common this was during the war as compared to the original military wagon saddle pattern.
Hutchins says this pattern of saddle probably originated from the Attachapas saddles of SW Louisiana region and, also from Spanish and Half Spanish saddles first developed in St Louis in the 1830- 40's era. One can readily see its strong similarities to Spanish and Half Spanish saddles in the slope of the horn (see photo #4 below of a Spanish saddle).
These saddles are a really neat kinda tree but a rare find. No one currently reproduces them (to my knowledge) but are not that much different from other wood horned saddles so would not, in my opinion, be difficult to do for a skillful tree maker. Wish someone would make these trees then repop the wagon saddle finish. That would be neat for a true Ordnance or Q-master wagon impression. Few reenactors are doing a military wagon impression ("postillion" style) correctly. Hope this helps!


Ken R Knopp

[adamandnicole]

Re: saddle horn style

Thanks for the informative reply Ken. This is what I was looking for.

Adam Dickerson

[AZFarrier]

Re: saddle horn style

Adam
I don't know if you have ever visited the Steam Boat Arabia museum in Kanses City, but hey have an origional civilain horned spanish/ texas saddle (any thing with a horn is a texas saddle. Look under fabric and clothing at the museum collection tab.

http://www.1856.com/

Here you go.

[adamandnicole]

Re: saddle horn style

Andy,
I'd love to see the saddle in the Arabia collection, but I cannot seem to find a picture of it on their website. If anyone has pictures, I'd appreciate taking a look at them.

Adam Dickerson

[MustangGray]

Re: saddle horn style

I second Mr. Dickerson's comment!

[adamandnicole]

Re: saddle horn style

I tried to call the museum to ssee if they had any pictures, but I could only get a recording. If the one of the books that they sell have any pictures, I'd gladly buy it.

Adam Dickerson

[Ken Knopp]

Re: saddle horn style

Gents,
The attached are a couple of photos graciously provided to me many years ago by one of the founder's Mr. David Hawley. These are two very common pre war patterns of saddles. One saddle is a common Spanish Saddle and the other a Grimsely hybrid of some kind (shows the Grimsley pommel with a round cantle.) I am told there are other saddles in frozen storage but I do not know much about them. I have other photos of some of the pre war pattern civilian bridles and bits they have found which I will try to post this weekend.

PS: I am sorry the photos are so bad and my photoshop skills more so. It is the best I have and can do.

Ken R Knopp

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: saddle horn style

Ken, as you know Thornton Grimsley of St Louis did make a "spanish" saddle... maybe this is one of them... maybe not... it would be cool if there was some documentation that was found along with them as to type and manufacture... Zack

[Outrider]

Re: saddle horn style

Grimsley also offered an evidently popular packsaddle on the civilian market. Particularly in St Louis. I would love to see one of those and would even more love to own a repop of one. Not to stray off topic but anybody have a pic or drawing of one of those Grimsley packsaddles they can share?

[OldKingCrow]

Re: saddle horn style

Gents,

I am told there are other saddles in frozen storage but I do not know much about them. Ken R Knopp

Is freezing the preferred method of historic leather stabilization or is it in lieu of or until proper "museum grade" stabilization by other means ?

How are the inherent moisture properties of modern refrigerants mitigated ?

Freeze dry ? I watched a NatGeo on freeze drying deceased pets as method of taxidermy. Literally freeze dry Rover or Kitty in a favorite or their normal sleeping position and they are preserved and very life-like.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: saddle horn style

Patrick, I did have a drawing of one at one time... if I can find it I'll send it along... it looked very much like a Grimsley tree with McClellan quarter straps if I remember right. I also ran across this link on another thread, since we have been discussing Spanish saddles this one is Santa Anna's. Looks similar to the one off the Arabia...

http://tides.sfasu.edu:2009/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/SamHouston&CISOPTR=182&REC=6

[Outrider]

Re: saddle horn style

Thats the style Zack! I would appreciate that very much.