Richardson Saddles

[Old-South]

Re: Richardson Saddles

I saw a Washington saddle along with the Richardson. They are very similar. The Washington has a similar Muley type pommel. The seat looks similar to a Buena Vista. I wish I had taken some pictures but I was in an Amish saddle shop and the do NOT allow pictures in, of or around their persons or property.

[Old-South]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Mark
Those saddles are in Ethridge Tn. The owner lives down in Minor Hill near the Alabama line.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Thanks, Jeff.

I have actually been to that Amish community in Etheridge.

Not to belabor this point, but I would suppose that just as the Mac saddle was so very practical for military purposes and was "borrowed" from with many subsequent saddles, the Muley/Richardson design was equally practical from a civilian life standpoint, so....................as the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Mark Choate

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: "monkey" Saddles

I know we all joke about the "monkey" saddles, but I sure wish someone can uncover exactly what they were and how they looked. Ken, David Bernard and I have had this conversation in the past. We know that the First Louisiana Cavalry was mustered in Baton Rouge and (along with their horses) were transported by steamer to Memphis. In Memphis they were issued "monkey saddles" before heading off to the Kentucky campaign. For years we've researched this unit, but still can't fathom what a monkey saddle was!

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Larry, Welcome Back!! I'd thought we had lost you! Yes, I also wish I knew what they looked like. Maybe somewhere some reference will surface to give us a description or clue. Keep posting Larry!

Ken R Knopp

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Hey Larry,

Just for kicks I googled “monkey saddles’..... read on but, stay with me here dear reader. There were four million hits of which the first several hundred looked like the following. Not being a math-wiz, I cannot understand it nor do I see its relevancy to reality (then again, what is real in the current insanity). Anyway, from what I can gather a monkey saddle is a “hyperbolic paraboloid” which today (according to them) can be summed up as a Pringles potato crisp........ Apparently the folks that know what all of this means (or care) say that a Pringles Potato Chip is an everyday example of a hyperbolic paraboloid .......
Now, read on for my theory on this.... (But, don’t waste your time trying to understand what the following means....just skim-read it to the end.....)

From Wykepedia..............
Types of Saddles
Saddles are common topographic features that occur on drainage divides. Simple saddles are surfaces that can be represented mathematically by the function:
z(x,y) = x2 - y2.
A simple saddle, of course, has two "places that go down" and these are where your legs go when you are riding a horse. However, there are many other kinds of saddle surfaces. The monkey saddle is the kind of saddle that a monkey would need in order to ride a horse (comfortably anyway), because he needs a third "place that goes down" for his tail. Mathematically, the standard monkey saddle surface can be expressed as:
z(x,y) = x3 - 3 x y2.
While the monkey saddle is fairly well-known, there is a hierarchy of "higher-order" saddles that you never seem to hear about. If we change variables to polar coordinates, then we see that the simple saddle has two minimums and two maximums as we move along a circle that is centered on the origin. Similarly, a monkey saddle has three mins and three maxes. A saddle surface with n mins and n maxes can be constructed using Euler's identity and the binomial formula (2 famous math theorems):
e(i n t) = cos(n t) + i sin(n t)
= [cos(t) + i sin(t)]n
= sum[k=0:n] (n choose k) *
cos(t)(n-k) [i sin(t)]k.
Here, (n choose k) stands for a mathematical object that involves factorials. The function cos(n t) has n mins and n maxes as t varies from 0 to 2 pi. Multiplying by r^n and recalling that x = r cos(t) and y = r sin(t), we get an equation for the n-saddle:
z(x,y) = sum[k=0:n; k even] (n choose k) x(n-k) yk.
Notice that the sum is over the even values of k so as to exclude the imaginary (complex number) terms. For example, the 4-saddle is given by:
z(x,y) = x4 - 6 x2 y2 + y4.
We'll leave it to you, the reader, to work out the equations for the starfish and octopus saddles!
By the way, the slope at each point on a surface z(x,y) can be computed as:
S(x,y) = sqrt[(dz/dx)2 + (dz/dy)2].
where dz/dx and dz/dy are partial derivatives (from calculus). Applying this to the saddle surfaces just described, and recalling that r = sqrt(x^2 + y^2) in polar coordinates, it can be shown that the slope on such a surface is a function of r. For the simple and monkey saddles we have:
S(x,y) = S(r) = 2 r (simple saddle)
S(x,y) = S(r) = 3 r2 (monkey saddle).
Saddle surfaces can be used as a stringent test of how well computer algorithms can compute contributing area and slope on divergent surfaces, somewhat similar to headwater hillslopes. As can be seen from these figures, the D8 algorithm doesn't do too badly on the slopes, but doesn't do well at all on the contributing areas as compared to the D-Infinity algorithm proposed by Tarboton (1997). This is a bit misleading, though, because the D8 algorithm does a good job for convergent parts of a surface and so it computes contributing areas to channels just as well as the D-Infinity method does. Both of these methods are available in RiverTools 2.4.
The simple and monkey saddle are included with several other mathematical surfaces (such as a pyramid and a Gaussian hill) on the RiverTools Data CD in a folder called Test_Surfaces.
Copyright (c) 2008, Rivix, LLC. All rights reserved.

..... Now, believe it or not, there is some merit to this- albeit conjecture on my part. If we observe the illustration of a hyperbolic paraboloid (illustration #1) and then apply its basic pattern to that of an old world saddle (photo #2) we can readily see the resemblance and the connection. So, my theory is that a “monkey saddle” as it applied to 19th century saddlery was a simply constructed, inexpensive saddle tree, maybe with leather covering or padding similar to photo #2 and sold as a cheap alternative to other more popular “name” saddles of the period.
Am I "losin it" or what? Whad ja think?


Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Hey Larry,

Am I "losin it" or what? Whad ja think?


Ken R Knopp
www.confederatesaddles.com

Ken,

I don't know if you're losing "it", but you definitely lost me. :)

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Larry, Welcome Back!! I'd thought we had lost you! Yes, I also wish I knew what they looked like. Maybe somewhere some reference will surface to give us a description or clue. Keep posting Larry!

Ken R Knopp

Thanks for the warm welcome! I was beginning to think there for a while that you'd lost me, too. I've had a run of bad luck lately. Must have been the curse of my Murphy ancestors.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Ken,
Thank you for the mathematical representation of the "hyperbolic parababoloid" saddle.
I can't tell you the countless sleepless nights that I have tossed to and fro, wondering about this very subject. I can now move on to other matters of concern.
Quite frankly, considering the obvious simplicity of what you stated, I am surprised that I did not come up with it on my own...........NOT, ha.

Thanks for the "schoolin'"

Mark

[Outrider]

Re: Richardson Saddles

"Ken,

I don't know if you're losing "it", but you definitely lost me. "
__________________
Larry Morgan
Buttermilk Rangers


Whew...Im glad its not just me! I was prepared to feel like the school underachiever if everyone else "got it" and not me. I was lost early on , stayed that way, and am still not sure where I've been.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Paddy,

I think Ken wants to make us all feel like we rode the "short bus" to school when we were kids, ha.

Mark :D

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Mark,

Being the solid C+ student I was in H.S. and compared to all 6' 8" of you there can be no doubt I rode the "short bus". Actually, I can honestly say I did not read all of that Wykepedia gibberish much less understand it. I knew it was WAY over my head but I did look at the pictures which had an impression on me relevant to saddles. It struck me that this simple “hyperbolic paraboloid” or Pringles potato chip, was really akin to the simplicity of an old world type saddle tree. That basic saddle was a forerunner to and, yet with only little resemblance to the popular patterns of the day ala' English, Spanish (or Half Spanish) or other horned patterns so was likely a simple and cheap affair.

I also took note in that long, laborious mathematical description the significant reference that a Hyperbolic Paraboloid/Pringles Potato Chip would resemble the type saddle "that which a monkey might ride", ala' a "Monkey Saddle". Perhaps the "monkey saddle" reference that I found in 19th century records was made possible by the familiarity to Circus acts of the period in which monkeys really did ride saddles. Yes, it could be!
This reference took me back down memory lane to my 26 years in professional rodeo where I had the memorable opportunity to actually know and see a monkey riding a saddle- The GREAT "Whiplash the Cowboy Monkey".
I worked many years with Whiplash (he was only an acquaintance of mine cause nobody got very close to Whiplash else they might lose an appendage) but I did have the daily opportunity to note his "kit" or "tack". There can be no doubt that Whiplash rode a "monkey saddle" (please see photo). Although his was more of the Texas pattern it did strongly resemble the illustrations noted above.
Whiplash was a great "hand" at herding sheep. He could really ride! However, it can be revealed here that it was not by choice. You see, Whiplash was not fond of equestrian pursuits nor the cowboy life style (riding dogs) and so had to be tied to the saddle. As such, he stayed thoroughly P.O.'d all of the time and hence the danger in getting near him under the intense pressure of "show time" (He would bite hell out of you). In fact, even his hands had to be tied to the saddle so that he would not grab you or twist the ears of his intrepid steed.
As I said, Whiplash could ride and I only recall him once being thrown. Well, no, actually the only time I remember him leaving the saddle was in an unconscious state when this faithful mount inadvertently ran under a low fence panel which "cooled" Whiplash thereby sending him to the locker room.
Anyway, I digress.
Suffice it to say that there just might be some merit to all of the above gibberish that had some relevance to a simple 19th century saddle pattern that was apparently common enough (and available) in our period to have a name (a "monkey saddle") that was understood by the common person.

Hmmmm, Yep, I’m "losing it"!

Ken R Knopp

[Mark Choate]

Re: Richardson Saddles

Ken,

Monkeys ridin' dogs and Pringle's potato chips.....now THAT I understand!!! Stay on that level and I'm right there with you, pard! :D

Is it safe to assume that all of this is the by-product of some great pain medication that you are on? Please say yes!

Mark
p.s. it is only 6' 6" thank-you-very-much!

[rebadeba2000]

Re: Richardson Saddles



Ken and/or Mark,

This is a Richardson, correct? Belongs to a friend of mine and she wanted to try to find some info on it. Ken, are you still in contact with the Richardson family? I'm certain any photos of a Richardson is welcomed by you or them. ��

Owned by Tammy Schlabach
Sliding S Ranch and Saddlery
St Clair, MI

Thank you,

Rhonda Quarters
Tawas City, MI