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**Bob McDonald** · 12-24-2009, 01:30 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Ken:

Although certainly only a minor footnote to your fine array of Confederate portrait images shown above, I feel I should clarify Image #7 of the "C.S. Starman." As you probably know, this ninth-plate ambrotype is one of a pair, the other image, of same size and medium, features a nearly full-length view of another fellow wearing the same "stellar" - couldn't resist - jacket and holding what appears to be a "Mississippi rifle."

The key point is that I purchased this pair of images at a parking lot flea market in Ann Arbor, MI, in either 1971 or 1972, at which time neither had any provenance whatsoever and, most particularly, lacked any association with Confederate origin, and certainly none as to the 3rd Mississipi Regiment of Infantry. Additionally, these were "fresh finds" very reasonably priced even for those days, the pair costing perhaps $50 or $60. There was nothing, that is, considered particularly important by the seller.

At the time, I sent copy prints of the pair to the late Herb Peck of Nashville, he then being one of the true "pioneers" of CW "hard images" collecting and, particularly, of CS ambros and tins. Although I was at that time still young and fantasist enough to sometimes allow certain pieces to be at least partially defined by what I wished them to be, Herb was older and wiser. He pointed out that although having some "feel" as Confederates, these two worthies were more apt to be militiamen, albeit wearing indeed unusual uniforms, and could easily have been ca. 1858 from Michigan or Ohio or Vermont, et al., just as easily - or more so - than ca. 1861 from the South. Nearly 40 years later, and hopefully wiser and more objjective, I fully concur with Herb's initial reaction and interpretation.

I'm making these comments here not with particular relevance to your focus but, rather, to get this background info "on the record" because I'd previously seen these two images cited as Confederate. (After losing track of the two images until seeing them on eBay a couple years ago, I certainly noted their having acquired CS, and even regimental, identification!) Thus, to hopefully dispel this spurious ID certainty I'd like to offer the correct background for current and future scholars, students and collectors. As always, caveat fantasist.

Thanks again, Ken, for posting such a fine gallery of portraits.

Cordially,

Bob McDonald

**Ken Knopp** · 12-24-2009, 10:23 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Thank you Bob!! Thank you for the correction. It is important to know. It is also important for us to do the best we can to perpetuate correction historical information so I appreciate the time you took to do so.
Really an interesting image. I can only speculate about this but maybe the reason these images with the "star" or "Sunflower" were "enhanced" with the aforementioned and now erroneous moniker is because the 3rd Miss. Inf. (Co's B and E apparently) were raised in Sunflower County Mississippi. I suppose someone, sometime ago decided the images would sell better sporting this title. All of which encapsulates the risk we take in our world of history. The farther we get from the event the more open we are to subjective, distorted (innocent or otherwise) and agenda driven (political or for personal gain) historical interpretation. The sad state of affairs in which we reside. I suppose it has always thus been so. Anyway, enjoy the images...I do not wish to further ruin my Christmas with such thinking. Thanks Bob!! and...

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!

Ken R Knopp

PS: The "other" image.

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**CJSchumacher** · 12-24-2009, 11:09 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Ken,

Great photos! I particularly like those boots the Texan has on. Very western with the scalloped front and even appear to have a bit of a cuban heel. Talk about progressive...this guy had the latest and greatest!

I also like the 9th Va. captain. Imagine that frock in person and potentially trimmed and with inner facings of yellow. As we know it would appear dark as that jacket shows. That would be some looker!

**Outrider** · 12-24-2009, 01:13 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Thanks Ken! I have seen that photo of the German/Texan before and could not take my eyes off of it. My first thought, like Mr Schumacher was that those are mighty fancy and (surely) expensive boots he's got on! With the scalloped front they certainly have a "cowboy" look. Almost modern looking to my eye.

Merry Christmas all!

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-25-2009, 05:05 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

I think this pic of the Texas German is a little unique for a couple of reasons. Of course the boots is the first thing that stand out. Not only are they slightly scalloped like cowboy boots, they very clearly have a underslung type riding heel. Is that a communtation jacket he's wearing?

The main thing that I feel is unique about this pic is the fact that he's Id'd as a Confederate from New Braunfels. All of that area surrounding San Antonio was very heavily populated as German settlements from the early 1850s even through today. In many of those settlements, especially New Braunfels, English was not commonly spoken until the 1960s and '70s.

The Germans in SW Texas were known to be Union sympathizers or neutralists as a whole. A portrait of a Texas German Confederate is even more rare (in my opinion) than a portrait of Hispanic or Black Confederates.

**Auld Pelty** · 12-25-2009, 07:10 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Larry,

Those Hill Country Germans were really split in their loyalties. Much as been written about them, but there were only 4 U.S. regiments organized with Texans---all cavalry and most were not Germans. Some German Unionists organized into partisan units and were easily put down in 1862.

404 Page Not Found

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/NN/qen1.html

A German fellow with a thick accent lived next door to me in the '60's in SE Texas. I thought he was a Nazi. Curious about his missing fingers, I asked my father and he told me they were shot off during the War by a machine gun. I asked why he was "living Here" and Dad told me it was the Korean War and Mr. Kniddel was from New Braunfels.

**Old Reb** · 12-25-2009, 07:37 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

404 Page Not Found

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/GG/png1.html

Maybe this is the link Fergus meant.:)

**Auld Pelty** · 12-25-2009, 07:41 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Doh !!!!!!!!!

**Old Reb** · 12-26-2009, 03:42 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Augustus Buchel of the 1st Texas Cavalry Regiment. He was of German descent and killed at the Battle of Pleasant Hill, Louisiana.

Additional information can be found at http://www.cemetery.state.tx.us/pub/...asp?pers_id=66

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-28-2009, 08:53 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Before I open a can of worms that I didn't mean to, let me clarify myself. I did not mean that there were no Hill Country Germans fighting for Texas. I said they were rare (just as other ethnic minorities who fought for the CSA were rare... but they did exist). What I meant was that the German immigrants in the region were a tight knit community and tended to be more neutral in their approach to the war. I stand by my earlier statement that some were openly sympathetic to the Union, but I was unaware that they took up arms against Texas to any degree. Were there Germans who fought for the Confederacy? Obviously. But did the Hill Country Germans rush out to fight for either side in numbers relative to their overall population? I do not believe they did.

I believe they mostly took the same approach to the war as they did to the Comanche problem. They tried to stay to themselves until something directly impacted their communities or families. They just preferred to be left alone. I make these observations because some of the people I love most in this world are themselves Hill Country Germans and I still see a lot of that same closeness in their communities.

Especially New Braunfels, though it's changing rapidly thanks to urban expansion.

**Old Reb** · 12-28-2009, 10:18 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

The Confederacy did have trouble with some Germans in the hill country, but the greatest challenge to Confederate authority in Texas occurred in the areas along the Red River in north Texas. A search of the Gainsville Hangings gives insight into this story.

Since this thread is about cavalry and not loyalty or not and the problems that such caused, I suggest that my post be moved to another area. Where? I don't know.

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-28-2009, 11:30 AM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

Excellent point, Tom. I'd like to know more about the Red River country of North Texas and the Gainesville Hangings. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know squat about east or north Texas during the war. I've traveled from one end of Texas to the other, but I've spent the majority of my time in the Hill and Brush country. I'm a Louisiana swamp rat born, bred and raised, but I've spent enough time in that part of the Lone Star state that I've got an affection for it and it's people.

This is a cavalry forum, though, as you mentioned. I guess we'll just have to continue this discussion in person over via email.

**Ken Knopp** · 01-05-2010, 10:26 PM

Re: Some portraits of CS Cavalrymen....

For you ANV Cavalry fans.....Here is another one that just surfaced on Old South Antiques today......

The info....Courtesy Old South Antiques:

Private James Robert Gwin, Company F, 11th Virginia Cavalry wears a Richmond Depot shell jacket with wooden buttons. His sword and revolver is carried by a US Model 1851 sword belt. Notice the lanyard tied around his model 1860 Colt Army revolver and tied off around his shoulder strap. The sword he is holding is plainly of Confederate manufacture. Gwin was born at Crabtree Run, Highland County, Virginia on February 10, 1842. At age 18 in 1860 he was a laborer in neighboring Bath County and enlisted at Bath Alum Springs in March 1862 in the Bath Cavalry and in April transferred to Company F, 17th Virginia Cavalry Battalion where he served in the Valley in the Army of Northern Virginia Cavalry. On February 5, 1863 he transferred into Company F, 11th Virginia Cavalry. Private Gwin was wounded in the desperate cavalry fighting at the Wilderness, but did survive the War and died in 1923. This image was published in the February, 2008 Confederate Calendar. The sixth plate ambrotype is housed in a virtually perfect gutta percha case, but is still accompanied by its original paper case which is inscribed in pencil �Jimmy R Gwin June 26, 1861� and below that �Wonder where he is this morning�. While the first record of Jimmy�s enlistment is when he joined the Bath Cavalry in March of 1862, the writer of the above, presumably �the girl left behind� dates the image as July 26, 1861. Research of the Bath Cavalry show that the men of the Bath Cavalry had previously been in Captain Andrew McNeil�s Company, but no records of this company can be found.

For more...check out my web site under Confederate Cavalrymen (If you have not already).

Ken R Knopp

Confederate Saddles & Horse Equipment

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

Confederate saddles and horse equipment

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