CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I was having a talk this afternoon with a gentleman visiting the museum I work at and we got to talking about CS painted cloth accoutrements. He made mention that he had seen a painted cloth strap at a small museum one time that had what appeared to be a carbine link on it. I ask the learned folk on here if they know of any painted cloth carbine slings out there, and where they might have come from. Atlanta was of course known for their bulk of painted cloth work, but what about the east or Trans-Miss departments? Still learning all I can lately about the cav stuff and would like to know about this aspect as well.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

Ross,

Good question and interesting to think about. I have heard rumors of such an item "out there" too but have never seen it nor do I know of its whereabouts. Would like to however. You may wish to look at, if you have not already done so, my previously published article on carbine sling. "The Confederate Issue Cavalry Carbine Sling" a copy is on the web site. http://confederatesaddles.com/cswp/?page_id=435
It makes common sense that if the Confederacy manufactured waist belts, cartridge boxes, shoulder straps, cap boxes, saddles, reins, etc. etc. of this material that carbine slings of the same would also be among that group.
Yes, your right Atlanta made alot of that stuff (or at least, issued/facilitated it) but so did other arsenals including naturally Columbus Ga (think Eagle Mills) but also, Selma and August to name a few. In fact, there is documentation on the above locations making (or at least issueing) various saddle equipments made from cloth. One thing I have found is that places like Columbus would make the items and ship them in quantity to Atlanta or other places, as requested to fill their requisitions. I have seen alot of correspondence among the arsenals asking for this and that item from the other arsenals to meet their needs. Another common sense aspect is that if one looks at rail lines of the period we will also see that almost everything going east or west flowed through Atlanta anyway.
My own rsearch and thinking suggest that due to the huge mills located in Columbus Ga that place was a prolific maker (largely under contract) of these items that were shipped elsewhere. Think William Brands & co., Crown & Co. etc. Columbus may well have been the predominent location in the Confederacy but I cant say for sure- only pondering.
The TM is another world regarding manufacturing. There is a growing body of evidence and written material regarding manfuacturing at places like Houston Tx, Shreveport LA, Henderson Tx, Alexandria LA, New Iberia La and others but the information is so meager and widely scattered. Probably alot yet to be discovered too. While raw materials and manufacturing was a huge issue the bigger problem was probably transportation of the same due to the incredible distances.
Ross, if you or anyone should find or hear of where this/these items could be found I would be thrilled to know. Thank you for posting this most interesting subject!!

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

The gentleman that I spoke to at the museum wasn't a reenactor, so he wasn't into the material culture as much as us, but he was looking at my William Brands & Co repro stuff and we went off on a tangent about CS items in general. He couldn't remember the location of the museum he saw the sling in, but felt it was a "small place in Georgia". That doesn't exactly narrow the search down any. I know as much as the next guy about painted cloth items, but had never heard of a known carbine sling. Like you, I don't think its out of the realm for them to have been used, but until the holy grail identfied original surfaces, I'm sticking with known types. I've been putting together a Florida Special Cavalry (Cow Cav) impression for the Tampa Bay History Center, and there are some fairly good records and remembrances written down for a late war volunteer militia outfit, but always looking to tweak and fix as I go along.

[David Fox]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

Intuitive observation on web carbine slings; thus worth what you're paying for. A carbine is a heavy, awkward object. A cloth sling, painted, tarred, whatever, would likely 'string' or otherwise severely and painfully narrow the area of the top of the wearer's shoulder bearing the weight. A long jog on an ill-gaited horse so encumbered would likely explore the limits of human misfortune. If cloth carbine slings were actually manufactured, one would suspect C.S. horse soldiers would have lost them very soon after issue.

[csabugler]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

Still learning all I can lately about the cav stuff and would like to know about this aspect as well.

Ross L. Lamoreaux

Hey Ross, the best place to do that is in the saddle! Come on, son, "jine the cavalry"!

David makes a good point ( be careful about stating opinion, the OTHER mods might whine about that) regarding the use of canvas. From past experience I do not doubt it's strength and durability. I would agree that a strap the width of a musket sling might well dig into the shoulder. I have carried a 3-bander on my shoulder in the saddle and it does so. If made 2" wide like a leather sling, I would think it might actually ofter a deal of comfort. Somebody document one and I'll sew one up and try it at the Mill next weekend.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

I hear you Patrick. If I keep hanging out with riffraff like Jeff Gibson, who knows whats bound to happen. I just like to make sure I'm educated in as much CW culture as I can fit in the cranium, and in my advancing years, I need to get it all now because I forget more than I can remember. Cloth goods have always had me pondering and looking, and I had never heard of a cloth carbine sling. I too thought that it had the potential to not be practical carrying that kind of weight in the saddle (as noted above) but then you see something like canvas belts with the CS navy, and they had to hold up some weight too. I do understand however that wearing a waist belt is completely different than something digging into your shoulder blades and neck. I love material culture, the more you learn, the less you know......

[Tom Craig]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

Hey All,

From an experiemental archeology standpoint I can offer this observation: Until last November I had only done Federal cavalry, so I needed so new gear for Bummers where I was riding CS. Nick Duvall was kind enough to whip up a very plain cotton web belt that was big enough to use as an impromptu carbine sling. The belt is between 2-2.5" wide, and I have since carried a Sharps carbine with it at two events with no problems, no digs, no rubs etc. The only issue I have had is that it places the carbine in a tough spot to grab for mounting (when its thrown over your shoulder) due to the stretchiness of the sling itself. I haven't had any trouble with it stretching, but then I've only used it twice.

And Ross, I have to agree...just bight the bullet and come on out in the saddle...you'll never look back!

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[rbruno]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

In Ken's article on CS slings there is a picture of the soldier I think from TXs. The picture is also in the CS volume of the EOG. He is the the trooper with a muzzleloader attached to what looks like half of a snaffle bit. I think his sling is some sort of cloth or canvas. It looks to have leather tabs on the end for the buckles. If it is not, it is very thin leather. Doesn't look to be thick enought for webbing.

Tom,
Would you mind bringing that cotton web belt that Nick made up to Cross Keys. I wouldn't mind taking a look at that.

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

Just looked at the photo that Rob referenced. Us belt worn upside down, saber but no scabbard, the sling definitely has a half of a snaffle bit and link strap hook, but I'm not convinced that the sling is cloth. It COULD be leather that has worn and stretched so as to wrinkle when passing through the ring on the snaffle when supporting the weight of the carbine. I made a similar rig for bummers and the leather belt was in the beginning stages of wrinkling in a similar manner after the weekend. I wonder what the strap over his left shoulder is for?

Dave Myrick

[csabugler]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

It is almost certainly not painted canvas.What is that over his shoulder?

[Ken Knopp]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

I am convinced the sling is made of cotton webbing. Having made a couple of these over the years it seems to fit and lay like webbing. Over his other shoulder? Looks like leather to me. Could it be some sort of saber shoulder strap? Suggesting it normally be worn as a cross belt from right shoulder to left side? In the photo the trooper has it casually slung over his left shoulder. Just speculation.

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[rbruno]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

I have always had a lot of questions about that picture. I don't want to derail Ross's thread on canvas carbine slings because it is interesting to see what else they could have been made of. Maybe we can start another thread on this picture to discuss other questions or other speculations.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: CS Painted cloth carbine slings?

I, for one, don't mind the turn of discussion, so carry on (with the mods permission). I'm enjoying the discourse.