Confederate and other period shotguns....

[Ken Knopp]

Here is a grouping of period shotguns. Most are imported but some have markings associating them to makers or gunsmiths who had business with the Confederacy (a couple to the Memphis Ord Depot). A few of them have bayonet lugs, shoulder slings and even their original shotgun bayonets which is quite rare. One has Indian style decorations. Anyway, given the interest in period shot guns here I thought some of you might find these interesting.

Ken R Knopp

[Old-South]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

Bayonets. I don't think I have ever seen a shotgun with one. Thanks for some great pictures! The shotguns with bayonets had to have been of the single barrel type. Now THAT is an under represented item.
Ken, were there and notations in any of the ordinance reports specifying if shotguns were single or double barreled?

[brown]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

No, some doubles were fitted with custom fitted for a bayonet. There is at least one in the collection of the AHC.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

Gentlemen, if you look closely you will see that each of the shotguns that have bayonets "are" double barreled and therefore the bayonets are fitted over "both" barrels. I have handled these weapons. The bayonets are generally crudely made specific for each weapon usually from period infantry bayonets.

Ken R Knopp

[Mississippian]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

"Ken, were there and notations in any of the ordinance reports specifying if shotguns were single or double barreled?"

Jeff,

My friend Dave Ray and I have been doing alot of research into Mississippi State Troops over the past few months, and among the scanty records we have found some ordnance records from 1863 showing several hundred double barrel shotguns being issued to State Troops, and only a few dozen single barrel shotguns being issued IIRC.

Will MacDonald

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

I am sorry but that is not an area that I have researched so cannot legitimately comment upon. Sorry, Ken R Knopp

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

I am so sorry, I believe I may have misunderstood your question. However, the answer is still negative. Many of the cavalry ordnance reports show shotguns in the ranks well into 1864 (especially in the west) however, none indicate differentation of double or single barrels. Ammunition cited for these weapons are buck and ball. Sorry, also my apologies for mis-understanding the intent of your question.

Ken R Knopp

[Outrider]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

Hmm. Very interesting. Maybe I have a use for that enfield bayonet I have laying around afterall other than for one fine meat skewer that is.
Too bad that my local blacksmith buddy has run oft and joined the circus or some such thing...

thanks Ken!

[Linkstrap]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

Ken.., counting down from the top, the 8th shotgun down, (the one with the "Indian style decorations").

Is that a Spanish moss carbine sling I can see hanging down from it??

[Jimmayo]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

I believe it was that North South Trader magazine that had a article in the last year or so about CS shotgun use. This article included a picture of a bayonet for a double barrel. I don't remember it being made from some form of infantry socket bayonet but some may have been. Lots of local made items appeared out of blacksmiths and gunsmiths shops to arm the Confederacy that makes a standard criteria for shotgun bayonets almost impossible. The only thing that may have been standard was mounting sockets for two barrels.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

Jim,

Good eye! Yes, it is a Sp Moss carbine sling but.....one of my repros. Not an original. The one with the INdian decorations has the brass buttons. I really dont know the story on that one (I did not ask) although the collector does.
Patrick, my observation and the collectors comments are such that these bayonets were simply hammered out on an anvil using old infantry bayonets. Each custom fit to the shotgun which were just fowling pieces converted to military use. The bayonet lugs are of different, not uniform construction. He tells me that he has research to suggest quite of number of these being done through the Memphis Ordnance Depot in 1861 and early 62 until Memphis fell. This same scenario might have been quite likely elsewhere in the South but I am speculating.
He has quite a collection of these double barrel shotguns but I quite counting somewhere over 60. Sorry, I cannot remember all of the details. More than a few of these have CS provenance of some kind. None of them are CS manufacture just purchased through an ordnance depot, or from a gunsmith with CS documentation, etc.
In fact, as I recall, he had one or two guns that corresponded to some receipts for double barrels from someplace in Memphis that showed Forrest purchasing them early in the war. Forrest was known for outfitting his command at his expense. Early in the war this was whatever he could get hence shotguns. Further, Forrest's Escort was known to have been uniformly armed with shotguns early in the war until they were able to get Sharp's. I note in one of my inspection reports for his Escort Company that they "all" had sharp's carbines excepting two with Enfields. Possibly these were sharpshooters? I do not know. Later in the war, they were all uniformly armed with Spencers. Forrest made sure they had pick of the litter when it came to captures. As his shock troops, personal body guards and police force, Forrest made certain they were not only of the best material in men (fearless fighters and often quite young) but the best armed, best mounted, equiped, fed and clothed.
Another weapon the old genetlman had were quite alot of Enfields. Some were i.d.'d, some had state markings on them. One in particular I remember from SC was quite beaten up in the stock and quite corroded, almost worn out at the nipple area from being fired so much. It struck me as a weapon certain to have seen alot of action. He tells me he is able to identify the look of a p1851 pattern Enfield (Crimean War surplus) to Confederate purchase and service. I really dont know much about this aspect but thought it interesting.
Anyway, these are from an old, very obscure and very private collection. Not for public consumption. Sorry.


Ken R Knopp

https://www.Confederatesaddles.com

[Old-South]

Re: Confederate and other period shotguns....

All of my ignorance aside, I still think a single barrel shotgun is probably one of the most under represented guns in the hobby. When was the last time anyone saw or used one at any event? They are a lot lighter than a two-holer. Probably as light or lighter than an Enfield.
I may have to go shopping...............The illness continues.........
Next time I look at any pictures I will be sure to wear my reading glasses!