Great image!

[Linkstrap]

Any of you fellers seen this one? What a great image!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-6Pl-Outdoor-Ti...item3a5e75349d

(With grateful thanks to Shawnra Greene for the 'heads up' on this item).

[Mark Choate]

Re: Great image!

I have not seen that one before, Jim, but I love it. The hat and the way he wears it gives an interesting "attitude" about him.

thanks for posting.

Mark

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Great image!

WHOAAAA! GENTS!!! Hey! alot of interesting things going on in this photo. What do you think?.....

1. From my observations, he is riding a Somerset saddle (possibly an English saddle but certainly NOT a Kilgore pattern) with M1859 Federal McCellan wood stirrups and a web or linen girth.

2. When one understands and can visualize the contours and shape of the seat and pommel of this saddle it appears to me that he is "sitting" on the M1859 McClellan bags. Which lends alot of credence to the question and theory of "how" bags were attached to civilian saddles of the period.....they weren't!! The blanket roll was likely strapped to the rear rings of this saddle. This is COOL STUFF!!

3. AND, THE MOST INTERESTING....

A blow up "suggests", though I cannot be sure, that his blanket is a Spanish Moss blanket!! Why?....the way it is frayed on the ends. ONe of the few surviving original examples of Sp Moss blankets shows this same kind of wear or, the appearance of fraying. Also in the blowup I note the way it "lays" and, believe I see evidence of a weave to the blanket. Though I cannot be entirely sure of this, it appears that way to me. What do you think?


PS: I also note a simple riding bridle (possibly of rolled leather) with English snaffle and running martingale.

In short, combinned with his clothing, etc. I see a good example of a civilian or Scout in camp.

THIS IS A SUPER GREAT PHOTO!!! Thanks to all who made it possible!!

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Great image!

Seconding "Great Image!"

Ken - The first things that caught my eye were the saddle bag's position, also thought it looked Federal, and the stirrups. Thanks for the info on the saddle, and great "catch" on the saddle blanket.

Makes you wonder how many more great photos lay undiscovered somewhere.

[Spinster]

Re: Great image!

3. AND, THE MOST INTERESTING....

A blow up "suggests", though I cannot be sure, that his blanket is a Spanish Moss blanket!! Why?....the way it is frayed on the ends. ONe of the few surviving original examples of Sp Moss blankets shows this same kind of wear or, the appearance of fraying. Also in the blowup I note the way it "lays" and, believe I see evidence of a weave to the blanket. Though I cannot be entirely sure of this, it appears that way to me. What do you think?

Ken R Knopp
www.confederatesaddles.com

Ken, I'll agree with you on that point, especially looking at the way the blanket lays at the folds. Further, the look of the weave is such that I take it for one of the 'twined blankets' as opposed to a loom woven.

If anyone here gets off the money to acquire this image, a high resolution look at that blanket would be most appreciated.

In the meantime, somebody might point out to McAllister that his doppleganger has been located.......

[Mark Choate]

Re: Great image!

Ken,
I wondered about whether he was sitting on those saddle bags based on the way they are so forward to the center of the saddle. I wish I could see enough of the saddle to know for sure if it was a Somerset, but will take your word on it.


Mrs. Lawson,
I was trying to blow up the image to catch the weave on the blanket and it looked coarse enough to be Moss, but I then thought that it laid too flat in the folds. The one that I own that Dawn made for Karl Pepper would not lay that flat in the fold, but it doesn't have the mileage that this one probably has. Also, I see no reason to insult the man and say that he favors Paddy Mac, ha. :wink_smil Actually, at first look he reminded me of Patrick Craddock.

If this actually is a Somerset on a Moss blanket then this is a huge find and I might have paid the $525 that just bought it, myself.

I certainly enjoy the "dissection" of these old photos. They really tell a story.

thanks,
Mark

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Great image!

ANybody have a guess as to what is hanging down (?) under his left foot? To me, it might be the left foreleg of a horse facing him from the other side...thoughts???

[Linkstrap]

Re: Great image!

I think it's actually the off-side hind of a second equine that's facing away from him Mike.
(If you enlarge the image you can also see the nearside hind and the tail).

I've been poring over this fabulous image since I first saw it but I hadn't spotted the Spanish Moss blanket.., good eye Ken!

[rbruno]

Re: Great image!

Can anyone tell what the thing is that looks like it is coming out of the horses mouth and disappears behind the horses off side shoulder? At the bottom near the shoulder it almost looks like a lead line, but not sure at the top. And with no halter, not sure what it would buckle to. Or, is this a flaw in the picture/negative and I am seeing something that is not there?

[Mark Choate]

Re: Great image!

Rob,
I thought that to be the lead strap that you see coming down from the mouth area and most likely the photo is reversed in negative form as many were.

Mike,
Not sure what is underneath, but there does appear to be something on the far side of the mount and it could be another horse and thus the leg showing.

Mark

[Outrider]

Re: Great image!

Nice Image.

That idea of saddlebags just being sat on has always bugged the **** out of me and frankly, I am not buying it at all.
I have tried it and tried it and tried it and it just does not work for me. If for any reason one has to post in the saddle or otherwise raise up....plop...there they go on the ground. Especially if trotting or at a canter.
I do have a theory about Mac bags and how they might be "attached" to a civie saddle.
If the saddle is quarter strap rigged one can drape them across the seat and run each bag UNDER the straps which places the bags foward , hanging low and still secure.
I have done this in the field on numerous occasions. I can also ride with my civie saddlebags in the same manner with my Texas/ranger saddle but do not.

Now I admit in this particular photo it does look like that could be the case that he IS indeed sitting on saddlebags and it also appears that the saddle does not have quarter straps etc so It may be that he is sitting on them if he isnt going far or at anything much over a walk but we dont know one way or another really for sure.
All I have ever heard on that was different opinions with nothing really convincing for me to change my mind on it..unless, that is, I have missed something altogether. Until I have a damn good reason to do otherwise I think I will go with what I know on that score.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Great image!

Gents, (and Ladies),

Here is a photo of an original Sp Moss blanket. This came from the famous Nashville dig in 1996. Note its frayed ends very similar to the one in the photo. That is what initially tipped me off on the Sp Moss blanket. Then a blow up of the image indicated the weave pattern.
I also post period 19th century drawings (from catalogs) of an English saddle and a similar "Somerset" patern saddle. Both of these were very common patterns to the CW period. They were usually differentiated from each other by the pommel (and often cantle) but the differences were often quite subtle. Both utilized an English tree but generally, the Somerset was more pronounced in the cantle (and sometimes pommel) than the flat English saddle. The Somerset as a distinct pattern goes back (in that name) into "at least" the early 1800's. The rendition I post is from an 1880's commercial catalog but the styles had not changed much in the preceeding decades. Varieties of the patterns are endless.
In any event, the more I look at the photo, the more I think he is riding a variation of an English saddle. It does not appear to have as much of a pronounced pommel as one normally associates with a Somerset. However, I am only speculating and cannot be sure from the available evidence
Like Paddy, I too think that the method of sitting on the bags is both difficult and risky- at best. I also note that the "usual" seat or back strap for the M1859 bags is not as long in length as what appears in the photo or what would be required using this method of employment. Maybe the back strap on these bags were modified? Maybe I am wrong.

Another observation I made: If one blows up the image you will also see that the M1859 pattern stirrups have hoods that have been cut out for extension of the toe of the boot. Cool huh?

I cannot imagine what the strap is that appears to hang down from the bit to the rear of the horse. I dont believe it could be a tie down, nor a lead line. Maybe I am grasping at straws here but perhaps it is a photographers prop to help keep horses head stable during the long exposure? Just a thought anyway.

Ken R KNopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Great image!

Good to remember that almost all of these images are reversed, as what happened in the photo process of the day. Note that our subject is holding his reins in what appears to be his right hand, when convention would tell us that reins were mostly held in the left hand (at least for right handed people).

[Michael Comer]

Re: Great image!

Can any of you horse fellows tell me if that is a particular breed of mount?

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Great image!

That image was up for sale on e-bay a few years ago... that's when I first pirated it into my digital collection. I really liked the full cheek snaffle bit too... Later, TEH