Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

[Sut Lovingood]

Here is a link to an item that I would like opinion on and maybe if someone lives in the area, a site visit of the flag.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-1861-CIVIL-WAR-CAVALRY-GUIDON-AMERICAN-FLAG-/320610109293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5da076d

My employer (Museum of the Horse Soldier) is seriously interested in this flag. Of course the owner is being contacted for more info, but as a member of AC, I am asking the community their thoughts.
Thanks in advance,
Rae Whitley

[rogue]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

eBay has had some crude cotton Chinese made flags in the past, this guidon does not look like one of the ham-fisted banners previously seen on the site. There are currently a number of bidders on the guidon, and before your museum spends any funds if time permits the guidon should be looked at by a knowledgable person. DuPage Flag Company comes to mind. Time is against you however.
It looks period, and looks silk. However...
S.Sullivan

[Mark Choate]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

Rae,

I just sent you a P.M. on this matter.

thx,
Mark

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

Thank you both for your help in this. I have followed up on your suggestions.
Our flag, banner, guidon, collection is the current focus...since we became the proud owners of the Cowan's Auction 2nd Cavalry Colors.

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?itemid=76701

I will be working with a conservator on that flag and two others in a few weeks...so it would be nice to add the swallowtail to the list of flags to conserve this winter.

Any other thoughts are appreciated. I will let you know how it pans out.

[rogue]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

I believe this went for an enormous bag o' money, beyond most small museums, yes?
S.Sullivan

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

Halllo!

A tough one, IMHO.

I see it has closed and sold for $32 Plus.

As I see it (no pun intended)... dunno-

It is hard to arrive at a definite or definitive opinion let alone factual assessment based upon pictures and not having the real/alledged artifact in hand. Especially small pictures. And especially its fine condition- it could be a repro- even a movie prop item. It could be "real."
Sometimes one can move a notch forward when the seller is established and well known, with a business reputation based upon a demonstrated track record for documentaiton, provenance, and not selling questionable items. That having been said, I was once disapointed when a prominant dealer had a patently obvious new reproduction Hicks rifleman's knife on his table being sold as original.

Or the possibility of a return should the buyer determine that the item was not as "advertised."

I guess it is a matter of risk and gamble- whether the gamble that an item is legit is worth the cost, and whether the buyer or institution is in a financial or mental position that they can absrob or live with the loss should the item not be "original."

Others' mleage will vary...

Curt

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

The flag has been added to the collection...and is a true object of beauty. The condition is indeed good, but has wear (more than the small photos showed) which are consistent with its age and actually were a relief to see. It is going straight away to the conservation lab. When it comes up on the conservation schedule I will be sure to add photos to this post. Thank you all for the input and contacts.
Now...who among us has records, diaries, letters, etc. of the 18th Mass Volunteer Infantry? I am wanting to sink my teeth into figuring out the guidon's story.

S.Sullivan: Yes, out of reach for many museums. Fortunately the owner has a deep love and appreciation for preserving and displaying military history and material culture. Being the Museum of the Horse Soldier...our emphasis is on Dragoon/Cavalry material, but there are exceptional exceptions. If any Authentic Campaigner members are in Tucson, please take time to visit us as my guest. And allow yourself time for researching objects. Many a day I have spent happily pulling out pieces for a visitor who wanted to look at the construction and details of an object.

[Ken Doyon]

Re: Ebay Gettysburg Guidon

Rae,
I live in Massachusetts and both places mentioned by the seller (Attleboro and Mattapoisett) are both 30 min from my home. I will look into some of the local libraries too see if there are any documented histories pertaining to the 18th Mass Vol Inf. I’m not sure if I'll come up with anything, but if I do I'll keep you posted.

Ken Doyon
1st Main Cavalry

[Sut Lovingood]

Udate Ebay Gettysburg Guidon



Attached is the newspaper article about the guidon. I would like to hear other comments about the guidon, 18th MA, article.

IMHO, this did not come from cavalry, though artillery is possible.
Briefly, looking at the 18th MA positions "as they entered battle" and they were not around engaged or on ground of previously engaged cavalry, at least that I can find. They first get into action on day2, with Tilton. They came up a bit after Tilton's main body, as they were initially left guarding trains. From my research, I am strongly interested in Winslow's Battery, 1st NYLA Bat D.

The conservator for the guidon pulled in a favor from a L.E.O. friend, and a lab confirmed human and equine blood and black powder residue (which is a directional pattern akin to muzzle blast).

At the museum we have a very small staff, so our ability to dedicate time to this has been limited. I open this to the AC for conjecture, and maybe we can as a community get closer to the truth about this guidon.