Old Curb Chains

[Old-South]

I found these in my old farmhouse in Petersburg, Tn. Thought the curb chains were interesting. Has anyone seen ones like these? Are they period correct? I also found a couple of old snaffle bits that were hammer forged alond with some driving and mule harnesses. The bottom chain is a modern one for reference.
Any comments?
Regards,

[TexCavly]

Re: Old Curb Chains

If that bit has a raised line down the middle of each mouthpiece, then I bought a bit exactly like that one in Iowa (at John Wayne's birthplace) and used the right side to make my "confederate carbine sling". I think that the bits where cast because of the raised line down the middle of each mouthpiece.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Hi Jeff,

Those possibly could be of the period as there hasn't been a ton of change in that area. I am attaching a photo of three that are period. The linkage is similar.

Hope it helps.

Mark

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Jeff, Yes, yes , yes, no... ;) I've seen chains similar to those on period bits... too bad the snaffle mouth is cracked (or looks soin the picture) Cool find! Z

[Mark Choate]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Yes, yes , yes, no...

Zack, I used to know a girl in college who said that a lot..............:tounge_sm

Mark

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Old Curb Chains

That's funny... thanks for the laugh! Mark, do you remember seeing the curb and rein chains on the id'ed bit at the Perryville Battlefield Museum this past October? Hopefully these pictures will load... Okay they didn't.... they can be seen in my facebook album.... I can't even get them to load in my A/C albums....They are very different, heavily California/Spanish influence. Very cool.

[Old-South]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Zack,
The bit is fine. No cast lines either. The crack I think you see is where one loop of the mouthpiece at the snaffle is open and has been hammered into place. I have several snaffles that are made this way.
The chains are heavier than I have seen before. It looks like some light chain with long fence post staples bent to form the hooks. Possibly just some old home made chains.

[rbruno]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Mark,
That is a great post! We need some humor in this hobby.
Thanks for that this morning

[Longrope]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Zack,
The curb chains on that bit from Perryville are made from its rein chains. Rein chains are common on California bits. Especially since they use "romal" style reins of braided rawhide. The chains allow the horse to drink without getting the reins soaked. They are suppose to provide a "weak" link that will break before the reins do. Some folks claim they provide balance to the bit.
I hope this bit of information helps.

[Outrider]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Nice find Jeff.

Zack.... Yes, what Casey said . I started to make the same observation . Those California bits sure take quiet hands and a well trained/seasoned horse though. I once met and old school cowboy who "graduated" his horses into them and had amazing control over the animals body and movements with hardly any perceptable cues being given at all. Like a form of western dressage. Amazing!

[Paul L Muller]

Re: Old Curb Chains

HI; these are not curb chains, but snow tire chain teads. They are the part of a snow chain that grips the road to give traction. I have farmed with horses and cowboyed for over20 years and I have used the very same as curb chains, and the work. I also used to take snow chains apart enuogh to recognise them. Look at the weight of the chain and see how extra heavy it is, also look at the welds on each link, the are electrically welded. Look at the doubled end links, the are to clamp into the in and out encircling chain that goes around a tire. As to the bit, it is just a very common sanffle the was sold be the thuosands and used every where by everyone who worked with horses. It's not broken, that joint is the way the were made. I have several and they are all the same. Of these things I am sure of ...on dought . I also am a traditional blacksmith and I know what hand forged chain looks like. I sure hope I don't come across as a know it all. I hope this helps .

respectfully plm

[Mark Choate]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Gentlemen,

We have a new recruit to the cav forum by the name of Paul Muller, who has not yet hit his beginning level of posts and as a result his attempts are not shown to the rest of the members. However, his vocation as a blacksmith gives him a vantage point on this curb chain subject that might be of value to our study. Paul says:

HI; these are not curb chains, but snow tire chain treads. They are the part of a snow chain that grips the road to give traction. I have farmed with horses and cowboyed for over20 years and I have used the very same as curb chains, and they work. I also used to take snow chains apart enough to recognize them. Look at the weight of the chain and see how extra heavy it is, also look at the welds on each link, the are electrically welded. Look at the doubled end links, the are to clamp into the in and out encircling chain that goes around a tire. As to the bit, it is just a very common snaffle the was sold be the thousands and used every where by everyone who worked with horses. It's not broken, that joint is the way the were made. I have several and they are all the same. Of these things I am sure of ...no doubt . I also am a traditional blacksmith and I know what hand forged chain looks like. I sure hope I don't come across as a know it all. I hope this helps .

So, in the interest of accuracy, I wanted you to see this information.

regards,
Mark

[Old-South]

Re: Old Curb Chains

That's what this forum is for. Thanks, Mark! Poor Tennessee farmers are quite resourceful.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Now that Paul said it they do look like tread chains... I'd never thought about that possible application... I've not looked at many period snaffles usually only watering bridles, so the mouth piece mfg. is an interesting note for me to file away.

Patrick and Casey, I'm familiar with the California traditions of horsemanship, bosal and spades. Althought the curb chain on the Perryville bit was the same as the rein chains, and someone had rigged the rein chain funky (one was missing)I don't believe the curb chain was just a repurposed rein chain. I've thought about sending the image to someone like Erinie Morris or Mark Dahl to get their opinion. It is bent askew, but did have pretty good balance. I wish it would have included the reins along with the bit and headstall, but oh well we can't have everything. Z

[Longrope]

Re: Old Curb Chains

Zack,
I don't doubt your knowledge about California horsemanship.

There are, however, many people who read this forum who don't understand when you talk about "spades" and "bosals". Raising everyone's level of knowledge is what the Cavalry Forum is all about.

I'm just happy that there are folks like you and Patrick who are interested in that aspect of 19th century horsemanship, and are willing to discuss it on a CW site.

The real question should be; what did Capt. Lafferty know about the California tradition?