saddle tree question

[malachi]

Good morning gentlemen,
I am writing to ask if any of you have had a look at a Bowden tree makers Jenifer tree. The view on their site shows a fairly accurate patent looking pommel, but the cantle looks more like a grimsley given its steep angle like a mac. I just wanted to know if the photo is deceiving or if they have it that wrong. jcws trees in georgia is no longer taking orders and they were the best I had seen. Steele has a very good cantle angle, but the pommel doesn't match the patent model. I have been in touch with several reputable historic saddle makers and they are all quite concerned about the loss of the jcws trees, and are in a quandry as what to do to replace it. I am looking for one myself. If any of you have any advice for me I would really appreciate it as I am looking to build a Jenifer.
with regards,
John Gregory Tucker

[Old-South]

Re: saddle tree question

I hadn't heard that James had suspended production of their trees. That is quite disturbing. Is there any other tree makers that are making trees for us? There are quite a few saddlemakers(Pepper, Kidd, Smith, Lilly, etc). Do they all get their trees from the same place?

[Mark Choate]

Re: saddle tree question

Jeff,

Karl had told me that a while back when he was building my Grimsley. It could get to be rough out there when trying to find good trees.

John, send me a p.m. with your email and I will try to put you in contact with some fellas who might have an answer.

thx,
mark

[malachi]

Re: saddle tree question

I have done further research and it seems that hadlock fox has a pattern for the jenifer, but i won't be able to see the images of their product until friday. I'll let you know what i find.
john gregory tucker

[Ken Knopp]

Re: saddle tree question

John, I for one, would be most interested in seeing some photos of the Hadlock Fox Jenifers. Can you post them when you get them?

Ken R Knopp

[Mike Ventura]

Re: saddle tree question

Hadlock Fox has a rudimentary web site with some photos of some trees at hadlockfox.com

Here are a couple of comments from some real life cowboys / saddlemakers regarding their trees:

"I am quite bias(d) when it comes to saddle trees, I only use top quality custom trees made of wood and covered with rawhide, there is nothing better in my opinion. So I have only seen a couple trees from the maker (Hadlock Fox) you are asking about and in comparison to what I normally see in the trees I use, I don't think the trees you mention would even make decent firewood for me."

"I saw a tree from them (Hadlock Fox) two weeks ago that I wouldn't put on a rocking horse!"

Yet, on another cowboy forum, a member raves about their roping trees.

From what I can discern, their trees are either fiberglass or wood covered with fiberglass. They do not show a Jennifer tree on their site, so I know nothing about that.

[malachi]

Re: saddle tree question

I have purchased a mac tree from them in the past with rawhide covering that has held up quite well. still very strong. the gentleman who can provide me with the photos will be back in town on friday and i will get the photos a.s.a.p. and post them.

john gregory tucker

[malachi]

Re: saddle tree question

I should clarify that Margie at Hadlock Fox told me that they have the patterns for the jenifer. I asked if i could see the completed design before commiting to anything and she has assured me that such images are available. Since it is a specialty tree they don't normally show it or the mac tree online, though they did at one time show the mac a couple of years ago when i bought mine. I have spoken with Mr. Ed Steele of steele saddle trees and he is quite willing to work with anyone to modify his current Jenifer design to their liking provided he can get his hands on a good model. His cantle looks great but I don,t care for his current pomel. He seemed quite willing on the phone to fill the void.
john tucker

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: saddle tree question

I'm in a quandry about a good quality tree as well since I want to build another Jenifer and a muley. I had a Bowden made Jenifer several years ago and I liked it just fine, but I'm not enough of a Jenifer expert to know how the cantle compares with the original. I need to research it more. I custom ordered a Texas tree from Francis Bowden several years ago. I sent him several copies of original photographs and we discussed where he got his pattern (from an original at Ft. Riley) before I contracted the work. I've examined several original trees and compared mine to numerous originals over the years and I'm still more than pleased with the result. He did everything I asked him to do, including unbleached rawhide. The wait was longer than expected, but worth it in the end. I wouldn't hesitate to go back to him for another Texas tree.

[Ken Knopp]

Re: saddle tree question

Part of the problem with re-producing CS Jenifer trees is that there are “at least” three variations of them in original form. Which one do we choose? The Patent model (so called because it closely resembles Walter H. Jenifer's Patent), another variation of the same and, then a modified 2nd model Jenifer. There was also a"transition" Jenifer that is unknown in appearance. These of course, were ALL "eastern" CS patterns.
In the west, the "Jenifer" saddle made at arsenals and by contractors are even more vague. Beyond that,.... the even more fuzzy and evolving ways all of the Jenifers saddles were finished with leather, hardware etc. one should be careful to have the correct saddle in their theater of war. While the above patterns were made via the Richmond Arsenal (some but not all at Clarksville) almost none of these were shipping to the west (I can document only about 2,000). So, if you are a western CS cavalryman, the typical, well known Jenifer would not be correct without some modifications of a largely unknown nature. A real can of worms here.
Still, having said that, if Mr Steele is serious and would be interested in producing a good sound Jenifer I might be able to offer some help through some of my sources. He knows me. I wrote an article many years ago on his family which made saddles in Nashville for the Confederacy, later the Yankees, still later McClellans for the WWI Army. Very interesting story. Ask him and see what his interest might be.

Ken R Knopp

[malachi]

Re: saddle tree question

I don't think he would mind my telling this, but Karl Pepper is trying to get one of his old trees to Mr. Steele for him to copy. Karl has to do some work to it first he said, so I don't know a time frame.
john gregory tucker

[malachi]

Re: saddle tree question

I don't think he'd mind my saying; Karl Pepper told me he was going to send a jenny tree to Mr. Steele. Karl said he had some work to do to it first though so I don't have a time frame.
John Gregory Tucker