OPriginal Hope / Texas tree on EBay?

[Mike Ventura]

Check this out -

ttp://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-HOPE-SADDLE-TREE-1840s-INDIAN-WARS-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-/120672886135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c18aa 1d77#ht_1832wt_1141

[Ken Knopp]

Re: OPriginal Hope / Texas tree on EBay?

Well, speaking of ebay check this out.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/150-yo-Conestoga-Civil-War-wheel-horse-saddle-RARE-/110636533456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c27386d0

For those looking for a nice original and in good condition "collectible" but,....that could maybe be used in a living history setting- this is a good'n. Very reasonably priced (right now) and in very good condition needing only a girth, some stirrup leathers and metal stirrups. I do not recommend using artifacts for reenacting and I am not here but, this one is in excellent, solid condition and if one wanted a saddle for an occaisional living history or static display and one handled it carefully- then fine.

Ken R Knopp

[Mark Choate]

Re: OPriginal Hope / Texas tree on EBay?

Hi Ken,

On your website is a saddle which is one of the Ashworth collection and it looks spot on like this Conestoga wheel saddle. In your description on the site, I believe you mention that it is built on a Sommerset tree. What would be the differences in these two saddles. The differences would have to be minor.

thx,
Mark

[Old-South]

Re: OPriginal Hope / Texas tree on EBay?

Speaking of the Sommerset, isn't the later Kentucky/spring seat also built on the same tree?

[Ken Knopp]

Re: OPriginal Hope / Texas tree on EBay?

Mark, Yes, they are very similar aren't they? Not much differrence. In short the English tree is more flat while the Somerset employes the same English tree but with a more pronounced pommel and often cantle too. For an explanation of the differences between the Somerset and the English please allow me to quote my article on the subject,...

SOMERSET: As a separate pattern the Somerset saddle originated before our Civil War but it is not clear where or when. Their distinction is that they utilized an English tree but with pommel and cantle modifications allowing for a slightly deeper seat and a wider variety of enhanced leather treatments than typical English saddles. In appearance, the Somerset is a transition pattern between the harmonious, flat English saddle and, the higher pommel and cantle of the Kilgore saddle, (see below). Often appearing similar to the Kilgore it is differentiated by a more modest pommel and a low, graceful, (almost flat), seat and cantle closer to English saddles. Variations and enhancements depicted in catalogs were many including with or without stitched down seats, under padding, fancy tooling, assorted skirt treatments and sizes, open wood or metal stirrups but rarely with fenders. Catalog saddle makers of the period blended so many styles the Somerset can easily be confused with both the English and the Kilgore and, occasionally even Spring Seat saddles however, the basic configuration of an English tree with varying pommel and cantle is what makes a Somerset.

**Very similar to the basic English tree the Somerset allowed for variations in the height and shape of the Somerset’s pommel and cantle.

*** Somerset pommels were often more pronounced than English saddles. They also tended to have fancy finishes such as quilted and padded seats, cantle rolls, and long, often tooled, leather skirts. While in general, English saddles tended to be more flat and plain.

Jeff, the Spring seat saddle was a pre war pattern but the Kentucky Spring Seat was a post war saddle. Both were often built on an English or Somerset trees (again the difference being in the hieght and shape of the pommel and cantle.) Again, for the best explanation please allow me to quote my article.

SPRING SEAT (Kentucky Spring Seat) : Spring seat applications probably date back to the 18th century although several patents are noted between 1802 and 1840. As one of the most popular commercial riding patterns the 19th century Spring Seat saddle was made on English or Somerset trees, usually heavily padded and built for comfort by the addition of a simple web, leather or light steel spring application under the seat on the waist of the tree. Almost always found with fancy seat and skirt treatments their appearances varied widely with makers. The spring seat’s comfort and attractive appearances made them one of the most popular riding saddles of the period.
In the late 1800's Eugene Minihan of Owingsville Ky. is credited with inventing and patenting the “Kentucky Spring Seat” saddle. It appears Minihan improved the flexibility in the saddle with a unique, solid leather tree design. (10). The Kentucky Spring Seat saddle innovation was soon copied by many makers and usually included stitched and padded seat treatments and, were frequently accompanied with a pronounced cantle roll, (and sometimes a pommel roll). It should be noted however, that in outward appearance the Kentucky Spring Seat saddle was often constructed virtually the same as common spring seat saddles. In fact, comparison of numerous catalogs often show little perceivable difference between the two except in name only. (11).


**In outward appearance the Spring Seat and the Kentucky Spring Seat saddles, (and even Kilgore’s), were often indistinguishable. Only their tree design and their names can differentiate them.


Gents, I am sorry to have to resort to this for an answer. My apologies but I hope it helps.

Ken R Knopp