Personna Question

[14th VA Cav]

Does anyone know the time of enlistment for Cav before the Civil War? I'm trying to track down when my enlistment ran out so I can get things set for both my Union and Confederate personna. Thanks

[Mark Choate]

Re: Personna Question

Jason,

If you don't mind, please flesh out your question a bit more. I am not sure I am grasping exactly what you are asking?

regards,
Mark

[ohpkirk]

Re: Personna Question

He is asking for the length of an enlistment during mid-late 1850s.


Looking at the units in his signature line, the duration of a dragoon's enlistment during the 1850s was 3 years.

[14th VA Cav]

Re: Personna Question

Thanks that helps. I was trying to finish up my personna. Instead of leaving the army and going south I thought I would say my enlistment was up and went home before everything went crazy. It's a little more honorable then. Was just trying to back step and see if I would have been old enough to have fought in Florida so I can put a red trimmed service stripe on my dragoon jacket. Thanks for the help.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Personna Question

Jason, Easy! ;) Stating "It's a little more honorable then" would be implying men like Lee and Stuart lacked honor when they resigned their commissions and stayed loyal to the South... Our honor today varies from the honor of the 1860's. keep in mind these men's fathers and grandfathers fought the War of Independence. Many a Southerner saw the Civil War as a Second War of Independence. It was all a matter of honor to them. Geezz this coming from a Western Federal! Z

[14th VA Cav]

Re: Personna Question

That's not what I was meaning. For officers it was easy you resigned your commision and went home. As a 1st Sgt. I don't see the federal goverment saying 'OK you can leave and go fight for the south'. If anyone has info that they let them do this please pass this on to me. Everyone tells me I'm a deserter. That was what I was meaning about being more honorable. Sorry for the mix up.

[bAcK88]

Re: Personna Question

I'll admit that I my knowledge of Antebellum enlisted personal is lacking, but weren't the majority of enlisted men devoid of a sense of regional identity prior to the war? The make-up of the Antebellum army was, for the most part, individuals that could not hold a job anywhere else or recent immigrants. 150 years ago American society was not engulfed in the cult of the American warrior, and in fact most Americans looked down upon enlisted soldiers as coming from the bottom rungs of society. Thus most soldiers, for the most part, did not possess nationalistic tendencies but rather saw the army was a paying job that provided for food, clothing, shelter, and later on one of the few "retirement homes".

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can shed some light on this subject.

[john duffer]

Re: Personna Question

" would be implying men like Lee and Stuart lacked honor when they resigned their commissions and stayed loyal to the South... "

A gentleman on Mr. Szabo's forum posted that Lee only went with the South because he was offered more money. I was called a lost causer by several when I disagreed. I guess opinions vary.

[Chip]

Re: Personna Question

Whether it was an officer or an enlisted man, many of these men felt that it was inevitable that the southern states would be successful in forming a new independent nation.

While you can't say that a, "one size fits all," analysis can be used, the issues of family ties, land holdings and religion would be at the top of the list of reasons why they chose to cast their lot with a certain state.

There were, of course, those individuals like Senator Yulee of Florida who immediately sent letters to all of his creditors in the North that he and his railroad company were no longer indebted to them in any way, shape, or form.

[jchristiansen]

Re: Personna Question

Enlisted men and NCOs in the US regular armed forcesdid not have the option of resigning from the service to follow their state or locality. If they felt that strongly over the sectional crisis that they needed to leave the service, they would have had to desert. So, yes, sir, you are a deserter.

Mr. Backus's comments are in the right direction. The enlisted component of the army was not composed of "the best and brightest" but those who could not find steady income anywhere else, and was generally looked down upon. There were many immigrants, particularly Irish (who were also looked down upon as being poor, uneducated and worst of all Catholic). It could be that such men may have possessed a sense of loyalty to their unit or the institution that had supported them that superceded any sectional attachments. What you should be looking for is:

1. What was the composition of the antebellum army as far as state or region, or national origin?
2. What was the desertion rate among enlisted personnel of the regular army after secession?

Surely there's a study on this out there somewhere in academia if you look for it.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Personna Question

Backus,
You are correct. If you look at the muster rolls for the antebellum period you would find an overwhelming number of German and Irish surnames. The people who made up the antebellum Federal Army were those people who could not find work anywhere else. Three meals a day, a roof over your head, and some cash in hand was very appealing to these immigrants.

To answer Mr. Christiansen's first question: a look through the 8th US Inf'y in Texas during the period of 1852-54 several of the companies (B, and H in particular) have ~4/5ths of their enlisted personnel with either Irish or Germanic surnames.

Mr. Williams, depending on what years and companies of the 2d US Dragoons you are portraying, I can send you the muster rolls for 1854-56 for when they were at Fort McKavett to look at.

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Personna Question

Jason --

I'm interested in why you think that you need a personna? Seems to me that the one that you are creating is a "one size fits all," which may not be applicable to the units that you portray at the "better" events, when a specific unit is chosen for portrayal.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Personna Question

I can see a background for maintaining first person, or a background for a living history, but heavy detail isn't required... John if you haven't noticed intellegent discussions and historical facts are sometimes a rare thing on Szabo's forum... Z

[14th VA Cav]

Re: Personna Question

I thank everyone that responded. The people we run into in our local events always ask why we are fighting for the losing side. When I gave them my personna history, the one from when I was in the 7th TN, it really made it personnal for them. It gave them a insight into 'possible' problems faced by people at the time. This is going to be only the second year doing cavalry and a freind that started a dragoon unit and I want to tie our personnas to each other as being old friends. I was mainly going to use it in our Washington State events and not back East. Out here 200 reenactors is a big event and we try and cover both Western and Eastern theater to give the public a broader look at the war. When I come back to the eastern events, mind you everything is east of me but the Cascades and the Pacific, I probably won't use it. Thanks again for the information.

[Marine Mike]

Re: Personna Question

I don't know what Army policy was but Marine enlisted was dishonorable discharge for those refusing to subscribe to the oath of allegiance until Bull Run. Then it was dishonorable discharge with prison time, loss of pay and other penalties. The desertion to join the other side was extremely low for the Marines, two I recall at Gosport Navy Yard during the destruction of the yard, the rest of the desertions was because they were tired of the corps. Suspect the pattern was much the same for regular Army.