Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

[j napier]

I recently purchased an 1863 Armisports Sharps carbine and it misfires continuously. I am able to get off 1 shot in 7 caps no matter if I am using a live round or blanks. I have used both 2F and 3F Goex, use "the paper lady" tubes, and red labeled German manufactured musket caps, the only kind I can find locally. The problem seems to be getting "fire" to the charge. I keep the breech clean taking it apart and cleaning it with pipe cleaners. So I guess my questions are 1) is this an ArmiSports issue; 2) do I need a different nipple (I'm using the stock nipple); 3) Does anyone recommend another manufacturer's musket caps?

thanks,

jim

[Soldat49thNY]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Hi Jim,
I don't have an Armisport Sharps carbine, but I do have a Shiloh Sharps 1863 rifle. I use the same powder and caps as you and have very few problems. The only thing I did differently was to bore the hole in the nipple out a little larger to facilitate the spark reaching the charge. I did the same for my 61 Springfield as well. Give that it try, it may work for you as well.

Regards,
Dan Wilkosz
49th NYVI Co. B

[rbruno]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Jim,
Maybe two things will help. I am not sure if you are already doing this, but makes sure you take the little screw out of the side of the breech block and take a drill bit that is the size of the spark tunnel and drill up to the bottom of the nipple. When you take the nipply out, you should see the drill bit under the hole for the nipple. If you just run pipe cleaners up in there, I don't know if it will get all the residue out. Before I realized this I had miss fires as well. One of the tricks with the Sharps is keeping all of these places very clean. The other thing is I used the Goex in the beginnig too. I found it miss fired a lot. When I switched to regular black powder, I don't get nearly the number of miss fires as before. The black powder works much better. The other thing I use on mine is old dentist tools to scrap all the curves, angles, and inside the nipple to get any crud off the block and nipple. I got mine from my dentist. He had a huge bin of old tools. The tools are really hard and small and do a great job to scrape the burnt powder off small places.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Hallo!

Just to add a few addiitonla comments...

1. Sharps carbines and rifles can be "sensitive" to powder fouling in the cone and flash channel.

2. And, they can be sensitive to the type of paper being used. I do not know, nor hav ei ever tried the Paper Lady tubes so I do not know if she offers "Sharps" cartridger papers or lads are just using the ".50 diameter musket type tubes.

Some papers do not shear or have their tails cut off cleanly to expose the powder, especially when used in small diamter tubes less than the roughly, nominal .54 chamber size. What happens is that the block face crushes or closes the end of the cartridge instead of opening it, or does ot cut it but rather just pushes it up and out of the way.

IMHO, check you cone base diameter, the cleanliness of your flash channel, and how you cartridge papers "behave" for their paper type and diameter.

Curt

[Cyclesmith]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Call me Capt. Obvious here, but if you have a good gunsmith in the area you may want to just take it in... in my experience my local gunsmiths love working on repros of old guns and getting them to work awesome. I am also double lucky because i live close to Lodgewood Man. so if I have a major problem or need parts (like an original hammer for my enfield) I just take it to them. I am all in favor of paying others to fix my stuff... then I don't have to stress over it.

[Tom Craig]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Jim,
It is largely an Armi Sport problem as most of the Armi Sports I have ever seen or used have had similar problems. All of the advice about is good, solid and should be followed. In addtion, I would recommend boring out the nipple. The nipples often have holes that are waaaaay too small, and by increasing the size of the hole you can get more flame into the block. Also, check to see that the cleanout screw is the proper length (i.e. that it goes nearly to the cone on the front of the block, but doesn't obstruct it). I have seen at least 3 Armi Sports where the screw was either too long, blocking the cone, or too short, allowing the flame to divert into the cleanout chamber.

Ultimately, Sharps from better manufacturers, like Garret and Shiloh (as well as originals) aren't plagued with the same amount of missfires that Armi Sport, or other Italian manufactures are.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[j napier]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Thanks, everybody for the advice. I did everything everyone suggested, except to go to the gunsmith (he's next on the list!).

I discovered that breech block was not drilled properly, and that steel was obstructing the flame from the nipple to get to the cone. So I drilled that out. I agree with Tom, the nipple bore is tiny, but I was able to find an aftermarket nipple with a larger bore (available from Fall Creek Sutlery). Finally, and probably most importantly, I experimented with charges of 2F Goex. The manual recommends a charge of 80 grains, which is about right for a live round, but firing blanks with a paper cartridge is a completely different story. The chamber is far too deep, even if a wad or two is placed in before the tube. So I made up various powder loads , packing each paper tube with a wad to tamp down and compress the powder. I discovered that the correct load was 90-95 grains if fashioned in this way.

That being said, all my efforts only raised my firing rate to 50%, which is better than before, but obviously not great.

Tom, Checking the cleaning screw length is a good idea. I have heard good things about Shiloh Sharps, so I guess I need to save up some $ and get something that works most of the time!

Thanks again to everyone.

jim napier

[j napier]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

hello, well this is the last installment. I ended up taking the rifle a friend who is about as near a gunsmith as one could find. It turns out the breech block was nt drilled out properly by the manufacturer causing the spark from the nipple to be mostly bloked from reaching the chamber. Once this was drilled out from the side and the from the face of the breech block, my problems were solved.

I am not sure what others have found with Italian manufactured Sharps, but the frustration in general and specifically weapon's utter uselessness at a living history event has been enough for me. I'm saving up for a Shiloh sharps.!

thanks for everyone's input.

jim napier

[Indianabugles]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Just as an add, while some niples can be oversmall and there are two types. One is like an inverse cone and the other is like a pinhole and they are like that for good reason. Take great care. I have had to complain about a fellow reenactor in the past who drilled his nipple out and gleefully informed us it went of first time, every time. Trouble was it used to flasdhback as he had overdrilled, deform or blow the percussion cap into parts and even on some occasions self cock, it being and enfield repro. Not fun to be about so I think your decision to BUY an aftermarked nipple and refit a much safer option. Not saying you cannot drill them a little but I would feel it is not a task for the uninitiated.

[talkToTheHat]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Be warned drilling a nipple not only changes the diameter of the hole, but also the carefully shaped profile. It is as much the profile shape as the pinhole diameter that causes the gas seal. Drilling a nipple is not only immediately dangerous through cap fragments, but will cause increased gas erosion and premature failure of every component in the spark path.

Are you completely inserting the cartridge or allowing the breach mechanism to cut off the tail? Complete insertion is only appropriate with a nitrate-paper (or cigarette paper) cartridge. One of the current trends seems to be the use of a newsprint body with a single layer of cigarette paper over the breach end of the cartridge.

It may help when using blanks, before priming, to incline the barrel and give a sharp tap to the breach area with right hand.

German red label (aka Dyamit Nobel) caps work very well, but note that there are both 1081 (4 wing) and the hotter 1218 (6 wing) caps. 1218 caps are designed to ignite pyrodex and pellet form propellants, but can work wonders on a damp morning. They are a slightly different shape however, with the 6 wings being a tiny bit tighter.

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

It turns out the breech block was nt drilled out properly

Guys, he didn't drill out the nipple he drilled the breech block. From what I've heard from several friends of mine that own Armisport Sharps', this is a fequent problem.

[talkToTheHat]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Taken that as read Andrew. It was not my intention to jump Jim for doing the sensible thing and asking questions, but the chorus of advice to drill out the nipple is admittedly a pet hate.

It's a more reliable and safer solution to find the real problem than it is to drill nipples or add more powder.

[Forrestcavalryman]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Please forgive me if I sounded as if I was jumping at you, I was not. I too have a problem with drilling out the nipples on a weapon for the same reason that you do. My dad purchased a second-hand revolver a while back that someone had drilled the nipples out on and it constantly flares out when he fires it. Again I completely aggree with your warning and sincerely apologize if I offended you.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

Hallo!

Sharps himself had a problem with this area.

M1851 and M1852 Sharps had a breech block with a gaping top but off-centered "hole" with a washer type steel or platinum ring (made by a NY jeweler).

The platinum ring type block was used on the early M1853's, then replaced by the Conant patent with a flexible steel ring in front of the cavity in the breech block and with a small flash "hole" (literally) at three oc'clok under the cone.
That was again improved with the addition of a "flame director" in a larger central cavity centered within the central cavity.

(And the cartridge for Sharps was changed from a folded tail needing to be cut off to no tail.)

Yes, there should be a waring or caution when lads drill out cones "too much" and set them up for failure. The issue with reproduction cones is that there is the modern "Period" version, and then there are the modern Italian competition style (aka "N-SSA Style) nipples" that have a base vent that is teh diameter of a thin needle designed with the idea that the pin-hole aperature focuses the flash to a pin point making it hotter- AND reduces loss of pressure due to blow-back back out of the cone.

"It is as much the profile shape as the pinhole diameter that causes the gas seal."

I would not agree that a percussion weapon develops a "gas seal" involving the cone when fired. A certain amount of blow-back follows the flash channel back and exits up through the cone (or touch-hole on a flintlock) . While an intact (not fragmented) cap and the weight of a hammer due to the mainspring reduces that somewhat, the gas still travels up the channel, up the vent, and escapes down the mouth and shoulders of the cone (creating an era of dirt that needs to be cleaned, and in the case of some originals corrodes the bolster and front face of the lockplate.
The hammer nose on some designs is not only recessed to try to contain and direct this downwards, but many are notched to help facilitate the soft copper cap in peeling rather than fragmenting as modern hard brass caps are want to do.

But yes, too large a vent in a cone, and too weak a mainspring can see a hammer returned to half cock by the blow-back of a decent charge. AND, if the cone is drilled out to overly large critical size, the cone many NOT be able to withstand the pressure of the blow-back and possibly burst before the nose of the hammer "has time" to rise and allow the pressure to fully escape.
"Drilling out" a repro cone from its modern competition pin hole to its Civil War diameter or less, while it may eliminate its internal "hour glass" shape profile, should not weaken it to the point of risk or danger with the normal range of black powder charges we use. Larger, obviously, yes.

Curt

[talkToTheHat]

Re: Repro Sharps Carbine Problems

That's ok Andrew, no offence caused at this end, certainly not by you.