A Higher Standard...

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

This portion of the Shiloh event is for and by "authentic campaigners". Most are infantry members of this AC site. As such, we- as AC cavalrymen have been “invited” by them to participate. That means that we as participants have an inherent obligation to uphold their high standards and intent. The cavalryman that commits to this event willingly accepts this premise or, does not participate and can therefore ride with the mainstream cavalry. It’s that simple.

All, Ken posted the above quote in the Shiloh thread, and several of us have been talking about what I’m about to post…

There is a feeling that we need to get back to our roots and the purpose of the AC! Not to split hairs but any cavalryman on this "AC" site should be striving to be as authentic as any infantryman that is on the “AC”. Otherwise, said cavalryman DOES NOT belong here. I hate to sound like an elitist, but several folks on here have busted hump putting together our kits for YEARS and we still don’t consider them done. Now it seems there is an influx of “I’m an AC member so I’m an instant authentic.” Folks need to walk the walk before they talk the talk. I’m glad folks finally seem to be excited about the authentic movement within the cavalry! For years "in the west" there were only The Critter Company and The Buttermilk Rangers with a smattering of individuals here and there dragging it along. Don’t mistake being progressive as being authentic, the two are not mutually exclusive. Please do continue to push for excellence at the 150th Shiloh and at every other event; in appearance, uniforms, equipment, and mindset! If a guys mind is in 1861-5 then there shouldn’t be a need to spell out no earrings, bad hats, insert your own pet peeve here and “if they’d had it they’d used it” attitudes within our ranks. We should know what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not saying we should use real bullets, or we shouldn't keep emergency supplies/vet. kits in our trucks and trailers. What I am saying is we need to be as strong in our impression as any authentic infantryman. When Paul started the first A/C, that was what it was all about: doing it better, holding to a higher standard, ALWAYS improving. I believe it's time to call spades spades and get back to the roots of the A/C.

Zack Ziarnek
ill6thcav@yahoo.com

[BigD]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Zack,

Well said, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Dennis

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Zack,

Very well said and diplomatic as always. I have tried to sit back and not make many waves as I've watched this forum disintegrate over the years. I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly what changed, who changed it, or when it changed, but we have regressed since the days when Paul Calloway first founded this board. In those days we knew that in order to be accepted as a member of this forum you had to pass a test. You had to have had an impression worthy of your peers and the attitude that went along with it. Not just anyone could just sign on and become a member. Unit membership certainly did not gain you entrance. Your knowledge, research and willingness to go that extra mile, then prove it to those who were already walking the walk gained you membership. Is that elitist? Not at all. You're not being elite when you stand among your peers. We came here to discuss how many stitches per inch and what kind of thread was actually used in a saddle, not whether or not a certain saddle was "appropriate" for an event. Those discussions were held at forums like Szabos, where people were either mainstreamers or trying to progress. This forum was, in the words of my father, for people who "came a knowin', not a learnin'." I am all for the sharing of information. I am all for catching more flies with honey than vinegar. I will be the first to admit that I used to pull my hair out at the harsh tones Todd Kern used to take with farbs and progressives at the old cavalry forum, but I see now that Todd was right. Todd was trying to carry the banner for AUTHENTIC cavalry in the Army of Northern Virginia just as we were trying to do it in the TMD and the Critters were trying to do it in the AoT. I didn't approve of Todd's tactics, but I always knew his heart was in the right place. Maybe we have failed here because we didn't take the harsh approach that Todd took there. Sometimes you have to tell people that they have an ugly baby.

I lament the passing of the old Authentic-Campaigner forum. I miss having a safe place where I could go and be proud to be a stitch nazi, button pisser, and "hardcore". A place where those terms were terms of endearment among like minded souls and kindred sprits. The cavalry branch has always been small and fragmented. We do not need petty politics and in-fighting to tear us apart, but maybe being too complacent is doing just as much harm? I have committed my few guys to go to Shiloh and give it a shot. I looked at the standards and thought they were well written, if a bit compromising and weak. I have a great fear that the term "in limited numbers" will be the exception rather than the rule... and I'm okay with that... if we are billing that gathering as a mainstream-progressive contingent at a mainstream event. But let's not say we are an authentic ad hoc unit if we are definitely NOT authentic. Authenticity is more than just who made our clothes and saddles, but that's a huge part of it regardless. Authentic vendors make authentic products. Farb vendors make farb products. I'm sorry, but if you're on this board and you're still shopping at Fall Creek, Blockade Runner and James Country Mercantile, you're sub par. If you're trying to rationalize your '59 Mac in an exclusive Confederate impression, you're sub par. If you're wearing earrings, hat strings, Guatemalan straw hats from Sunbody and modern eyeglasses, you're not sub par, you're a FARB.

If you're one of those guys who legitmately want to change and you're trying your best, then I applaud you. Keep trying. None of us are perfect and it was a long, expensive and painful road for all of us. Here is a litmus test for all of you... go look at the pics from the WIG or Trans-Mississippi authentic events in the last couple of years. Those are guys from all over the country, from small one and two man fragmented messes, who come together once or twice a year ad hoc to do an event. Yet you cannot look at their pics and determine what unit they regularly fall in with or from what region they hail. Now go look at the pics that have been posted of this year's CoI. Notice a difference? I did. Better yet, I could almost literally tell you from what region of the country some of those guys were from by the shape of their hats or the way they wore their clothes. Sorry guys, but that's a problem. It's wonderful that they are progressing and wanting to do better, but please don't fool yourselves into thinking you have arrived. Until you can fall in with Guy Musgrove and the old Critters and no one will be the wiser that you weren't a founding member, then you have NOT arrived.

I wish the old days of not having a separate cavalry sub-forum here still existed. This cavalry forum has done way more to hurt us than to help us. In those days, we were forced to communicate and interact with our Infantry counterparts. We learned quick from them what was right and what was wrong and just how intolerable they could be. But iron sharpens iron and they forced us to always walk the walk. We have lost that.

I didn't write this response to Zack to be elitist or say that I'm better than anyone else. Authenticity is a journey, not a destination. But I feel a rift starting to develop in what someone termed as "what passes as authentic cavalry these days" and I don't want to see that. I'd rather that we admit that there is a problem and work together to fix it before it widens and there is an unfortunate chism that divides what few of us there are.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: A Higher Standard...

I agree with you Larry about the cavalry sub-forum possibly being part of the problem... we used to share information with the infantry and many areas apply to all branches. But we got what we asked for.

About impressions... I've asked myself many times "Have I arrived?" only to look at my own impression and see the flaws within it. Is everything I have perfectly appropriate? No, I’m still upgrading things here and replacing things there. Will I (we) ever be “there”? Maybe, maybe not. Closer is relative for me.

Everyone else, please take this in the spirit in which it is/was meant. Literally, look at your own impression. Gear up and look at yourself in a full length mirror. It’s not being vain if you’re looking for flaws. If you know it isn’t right, don’t use it or replace it as soon as you can. Be honest and be true, the only person you’re cheating by lying is YOU!

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Again, well said, Zack. My intention was not to turn anyone away, but for us to realize that just because we align ourselves with others who have progressed, doesn't mean we've made the transition ourselves. My own impression is constantly evolving and will continue to do so. But there are lots of things individuals can do to improve on what they have. Hand stitch your button holes, do your top stitching by hand, get dirty, wear your traps high, throw out those knee boots or wear your trousers over them. Try not to mix and match Confederate with Federal horse equipment. First and foremost, buy a good hat and wear it correctly. Spend hours in the Library of Congress Civil War collection online and study pics of captured Confederates from the western theater. Do a comparison of how they are dressed and shape their hats, and then do what was most common. Constantly put your sub-par clothing that came from Jarnigan or Blockade Runner up for sale on Szabos forum and replace it with good used clothing that came from here. Make sure the jacket you chose to buy will work for multiple events, theaters and periods of the war. What they were wearing in '61 was NOT what they were wearing in '63.

But all of this would be a moot point if we wouldn't have somehow gotten off track with this forum long ago. What is the solution? I don't know. Getting back to basics is a good place to start. Why not screen membership here like it used to be done so we know that those who gain membership have earned that right? Of course if we did that in the parking lot at events, then we probably wouldn't have many of these issues, either.

[Outrider]

Re: A Higher Standard...

I am, of course, in complete agreement with both of you.

[ohpkirk]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Also the new user registration screen should explicitly tell potential new users that unless they have been reenacting for at least X years, they are probably not welcome here.

The number of years is trivial. It doesn't matter how many years someone has 'reenacted'. If there was no research done to improve impressions or gain a better understanding of the material culture of the time period being interpreted during these years, then there are other forums for these people. The people that should be attracted to this forum are those that have done the research and, more importantly, are willing to share what they've found. The recent posts about attending balls at a reenactment and un'tarring' a haversack are perfect examples of what should not even be considered as discussion points....not even in Camp of Instruction.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Steve, I believe you are right! Maybe we should take a page from the juried Rev War and Colonial reenactors and have members submit an image of themself kitted out and just go by visual screening alone and then do a probationary period prior to full membership. That is part of the issue there used to be a screening process to be a member here that has went by the wayside... There are those out there that are proclaiming to be authentic when they are not. They believe that reenacting without the comforts of coolers, cots and tentage automatically makes them hardcore campaigners, when they still use sutler row uniforms, hill billy hats and 04' McClellans, let alone hand sewn button hole and top stitching. I don't believe in driving anyone away who has the right mind set. I reenacted for years as infantry with a very mainstream group, then was introduced to campaign at 1st Raymond. In 2002 I introduced my horses to reenacting and started doing mounted. Usually, I avail myself to the infantry command because I don't have to put up with the mainstream cavalry their pistol charges and saber dances. The cavalry (even mainstream) is improving every year. I say it's about time! The infantry has had us stomped on authenticity for a decade! We can field maybe a dozen true mounted authentics at any given event. The infantry can field a hundred. Yes, mounted is more expensive. Yes, we have to outfit a horse. Yes, we have to trailer said horse to and from an event and deal with his needs too... BUT if we are going to go to the time and expense to set ourselves apart as mounted campaigners and authentics, then we should take the time to do it right. Every question I've fielded from a new guy can be found in the archive here even before I was asked the question. Every time some one asks about a heart breast strap (my pet peeve), it's reinventing the wheel and I want to scream. We shouldn't have to field questions about what the average Civil war soldier ate, wore and looked like; the Library of Congress has thousands of images. That's why in my second post I suggested kitting up and looking in a full length mirror. If you don't have "the look" keep working at it!

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Troy,

Well said! You eloquently said what I put my foot in my mouth trying to say. And to that end... if anyone here misunderstood my comments as being anything other than a critique of THIS FORUM, then I apologize. I had no intention of personally bashing any individual or unit. I have always applauded and tried to help those who want to get better, just as I continually rely on my peers to help me get better. None of us have arrived and none of us will arrive. But what I personally see as an issue with the direction this forum has taken in recent years seems to be a concern to others as well, on both sides of the house, and not cavalry exclusive. There are quiet, unassuming, individuals like Mark Choate and Ken Knopp who work tirelessly behind the scenes day in and day out trying to bring the mounted arm of the hobby up as a whole. If my comments here have hurt their efforts, then I apologize for that. I do not apologize for saying that I believe that this forum has somehow strayed off track from it's original intention. I think Troy did an outstanding job of summing up what I personally feel the forum used to be and how we've lost track of that.

[ButtermilkRanger]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Or you could close public registration altogether and make the forum invite-only.

Actually, Steve, this is how the forum first opened. I'm not advocating that we go back to that at all, but at the time, considering the heated discussions like this one that were getting out of hand on other forums, it was the best way to go about it. For years we had little to no bickering here for the reasons Troy already pointed out. I was called out privately for saying that the forum has "disintegrated". This petty bickering is one of the ways that I believe we have disintegrated and gotten off track. And since I have become part of the problem and not part of the solution, it would be best if I moved on.

[csuniforms]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Actually, Steve, this is how the forum first opened. I'm not advocating that we go back to that at all, but at the time, considering the heated discussions like this one that were getting out of hand on other forums, it was the best way to go about it. For years we had little to no bickering here for the reasons Troy already pointed out. I was called out privately for saying that the forum has "disintegrated". This petty bickering is one of the ways that I believe we have disintegrated and gotten off track. And since I have become part of the problem and not part of the solution, it would be best if I moved on.

Very interesting thread and with a different viewpoint on the whole subject of authenticity. We have all fought the battle, sometimes we win, maybe times we lose. I say the AC is here to educate. Every year a teacher gets a new class of students. Every time we go somewhere and talk Civil War there is a new face that knows "o" about the Civil War, but wants to know more. We can turn our backs or give some answer like "read some books" or we can really sit down and teach. I know, just like in school some just dont learn, some get it. I do agree that we all crave to be with folks who, "get it". It makes it easier. There is no easy answer. Teach or dont teach, share or dont share, it is up to you.

CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Tom, it's not that Larry and I or others are not willing to teach... from another school perspective we're talking about 2nd string junior varsity being told and believing they are 1st string varsity. I don't mind there being new and green guys around, I just think we need to keep them progressing. The cavalry is waaaayyyy behind the infantry in authenticity, the cavalry needs to catch up!

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: A Higher Standard...

All of you go back and read the 1st and original post... I added the bold to draw attention. This is the point I am trying to get across.

“That means that we as participants have an inherent obligation to uphold their (the A/C infantry) high standards and intent. The cavalryman that commits to this event willingly accepts this premise or, does not participate and can therefore ride with the mainstream cavalry.” This should not even needed to be stated here! This IS the A/C! We should have the same high standards as the infantry! The fact that this had to spell out that the cavalry “has an obligation to uphold their high standards and intent” just made the argument that the A/C is backsliding; it is not just the infantry’s high standards. The high standards have always belonged to the Authentic Campaigner!

[BigD]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Zack, You point is well taken.

I am not new to CW reenacting, I have been doing Federal Infantry since the late 80's. I am however new to cavalry and even newer to CS since I have been doing Federal, I know a lot less about CS. I am however, one of those who are diligently reseaching, reading and gathering as much information as possible to do it as authentic as possible. I do not like to associate myself with groups or individuals who do not have the passion or interest to do it any less. I take your coments and the comments of others in the spirit ist is given. We all have a responsibility and commitment to do our homework, study and strive for the most authentic impression we are capable of. I know I can't do it alone and I appreciate the experts here who help me along the way.

Dennis

[AZReenactor]

Re: A Higher Standard...

Zack. HERE HERE! Very well said. Artillery and cavalry should certainly strive for the same levels of authenticity as the infantry. Seems to me they are in sub forums for organizational convenience, not because the standards are somehow different.

All of you go back and read the 1st and original post... I added the bold to draw attention. This is the point I am trying to get across.

“That means that we as participants have an inherent obligation to uphold their (the A/C infantry) high standards and intent. The cavalryman that commits to this event willingly accepts this premise or, does not participate and can therefore ride with the mainstream cavalry.” This should not even needed to be stated here! This IS the A/C! We should have the same high standards as the infantry! The fact that this had to spell out that the cavalry “has an obligation to uphold their high standards and intent” just made the argument that the A/C is backsliding; it is not just the infantry’s high standards. The high standards have always belonged to the Authentic Campaigner!