Dismounted cavalry equipment

[John Popolis]

In my research to try to be as accurate as possible... or should I say, to avoid being laughably innacurate... I've encountered a bit of a quandary: namely, I don't have a horse; I'd saddle my car, but I suppose it'd have to be a Mustang or Pinto.

So, if I ever attend an event, it'd be as a dismounted cavalryman.

But... what would a dismounted cavalryman carry, if anything? What would stay on the wagon? A carbine, the uniform on his back/head/legs, a cartridge and cap boxes, maybe a carbine sling, canteen... and then, I get a blank.

For example, would he be issued a pack? Carry a blanket?

If anyone has a link or knows a book on the subject, I'd appreciate it.

[ewtaylor]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

In my research to try to be as accurate as possible... or should I say, to avoid being laughably innacurate... I've encountered a bit of a quandary: namely, I don't have a horse; I'd saddle my car, but I suppose it'd have to be a Mustang or Pinto.

So, if I ever attend an event, it'd be as a dismounted cavalryman.

But... what would a dismounted cavalryman carry, if anything? What would stay on the wagon? A carbine, the uniform on his back/head/legs, a cartridge and cap boxes, maybe a carbine sling, canteen... and then, I get a blank.

For example, would he be issued a pack? Carry a blanket?

If anyone has a link or knows a book on the subject, I'd appreciate it.

Sir,
I think you could answer your own question if you looked up what dismounted cavalry really is. I have yet to see dismounted cavalry used correctly in a reenactment. Dismounted cavalry (farb style) is alot different from the actual dismounted cavalry.
ewtaylor

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

But... what would a dismounted cavalryman carry, if anything? What would stay on the wagon? A carbine, the uniform on his back/head/legs, a cartridge and cap boxes, maybe a carbine sling, canteen... and then, I get a blank.

For example, would he be issued a pack? Carry a blanket?

If anyone has a link or knows a book on the subject, I'd appreciate it.

Dismounted cavalrymen became infantrymen forthwith... they were equipped, armed, and drilled as infantry. All they kept was the somewhat honorific name, (XXth Cavalry (Dismounted)).

Some good references include M. Jane Johansen's PECULIAR HONOR and WIDOWS BY THE THOUSAND (28th Texas Cavalry, Dismounted), Leeper's REBELS VALIANT (2nd Arkansas Mounted Rifles, Dismounted), and Mark Christ's GETTING USED TO BEING SHOT AT (1st Arkansas Mounted Rifles, Dismounted).

Hope this helps...

tom

[Coley Adair]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Sir,
Save yourself alot of grief, buy a horse or do infantry.

[RedCordCO]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Dear Sir:

Unlike some of the responses to your post, I'm not going to dissuade you from doing a dismounted impression. Done CORRECTLY, the impression of a dismounted cavalryman is as admirable an impression as any infantryman or mounted cavalryman.

Having a horse is more than simply BUYING one. There is vet, farrier and loads of feed, board and drugging to keep up with. They all require money only the RICH can afford. You MUST have licenses and vet clearance for nearly ALL events you'd care to go to. Did I mention that you need a trailer and proper pickup to just get the critter to the darn event? Then, the critter must be TRAINED. If YOU aren't trained there is no way you can train that animal and work it the five to six days a week the cavalry ran their animals.

You might want to consider the infantry impression but I feel it is only a starter's impression. It might be good to start in the infantry but don't be set on staying there. Generally, you'll find that your first love, where a branch of the Army is concerned, is the correct one for you. This is my opinion and nobody else's.

That being said and with my having been a dismounted at one time let me offer the following-

Depending on impression and side you choose to take, your equipments will be exactly the same as a mounted cavalryman's. You will have to haul it on your body as you have no horse to do this for you. You might ultimately wish to get a full set of tack. There are some folks who rent out horses at certain events. for this [having a mount to ride at an event] you'd best take riding lessons and actively work with horses.
You will most likely need a sabre belt, sabre, wriststrap, pistol, holster, cap box, carbine cartridge box, pistol cartridge box, carbine and carbine sling with snap swivel.
That's just the basic gear. However after shelling..no BEFORE you shell out the dough for the stuff in addition to the rather pricey cavalryman's uniform and boots, you'd best find a darn good Troop to join. I'm sure there are links at this august site or folks who'd know an accurate dismounted unit. They are very few and far between but they do exist.

Explore the options open for dismounted cavalry before you resign yourself to the long lines of infantry. You will be happier with yourself if you research and come to your own conclusions than to let others decide your choice for you.

R. Burchardt

[I'm not trying to p-off the Moderator of this board. The opinions expressed are my own.]

[Coley Adair]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Mr. Burchardt,
I'm the moderator of this folder and you will not piss me off with educated discussion. I do a dismounted impression at some point at almost every event I go to. It comes right after my mounted impression, I get off of my horse. It is my understanding that to become dismounted you must first be mounted. I also beleive that a man should do the best with what he has, a cavalry impression can be exspensive, why throw good money after bad and do "half" an impression. There are times when you could do cavalry without a horse, but in my opinion it would be far from PEC. The events that my unit attends and promotes, along with most of the folks in this folder, would not, in most cases, allow a cavalryman without a horse. I would not feel right about "helping" a man develop an impression that would limit his participation in authentic events. For every reference you could come up with for cavalry without horses I could give you hundreds for cavalry with horses.

Mr. Popolis,
If you would like to get a cavalry impression together, with a horse, I think you will find that the Critters and I will go out of our way to help you.

All,
I think this is a discussion that needs to happen, lets keep it civil and see what we can come up with.

[crabby]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Mr. Burchardt,

Yes owning a horse has it's expenses, I am hardly a RICH man. I guess it is just knowing where to set your prioities. Teaming up with a pard or two in your locale to share trailering, gas, training, etc. can help. Getting your Coggins at the right time can cover a couple (maybe a few) events.

Mr. Popolis,

Coley and the others have sound advice, and resourses. Remember: nothing is worth doing unless it is done right.

Coley (or others),

Any people in the central Ohio area that might want to give a poor 'ole staff type some help in honing his mount's (rider's) skills with gunfire and all?


Crabby
(teamster - Crabby's Kids)

[Johan Steele]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

From a historical standpoint wouldn't a CS dismounted Cav impression be more PEC? At Chickamauga there were considerable CS Cav as Dismounted. I seem to recall most of a Brigade and late in the War shortages of mounts had become all but crippling for some areas. I don't recall Federal dismounted ever taking part in a battle... though I'm sure I've missed it somewhere.

Having done Federal "dismounted"... I know now what I did was a farbfest; but I didn't know it at the time. Unfortunatly, I believed what I was being told. Research, answered a LOT of questions. But I have also seen some first rate Federal Cav w/ a dismounted element. Knowing the drill and the impression seems even more important for Cav to me.

There just doesn't seem to be much worse than a poorly done Cav impression but a good one... leaves a lasting impression.

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

As you see, "dismounted cavalry" is a can of worms that once opened can raise the temprature under more than a few collars by tens of degrees.

So, not to get into "that" debate again...let's say this.

If you are interested in doing quality events - you will severly limit your participation with a pure "dismounted" impression. While history holds many situations where cavalry campaigned for extended periods away from their mounts - those situations simply are not modelled in reenacting.

The quality things you can do as "dismounted" include;
Living history and demos where horses can't be (schools, some parks, etc).
Living history and encampments along side mounted cavalry at small sites.
Your own instruction camps and the like.
Some field exercises.
The occaisional parade.

As you see, this isn't a list of major powder burning events. For that you'll be relegated to the "mainstream" and get lumped in with the truly discombobulated cavalry (mounted and dismounted) - ie, the best impression will be lost in the sauce unless you turn out really significant numbers or know several like minded groups (HA!)

No matter how good a job you do on your impression - you will still bear the stygma of the dismounted. Many a farb has passed here before you deepening those ruts and making the title of "dismounted" akin to nails on a blackboard. Even some "mainstream: events advertise "no dismounted" simply because what's out there is SO god awful. Folks will tolerate the worst mounted cavalry before the best dismounted.

If you are still dead set on doing dismounted cavalry, and really want to do it well - then do it well. Cavalry numbers are generally fewer than infantry (and rightly so) at all but the biggest events dismounted groups are hard pressed to get as many as 60 troopers together and seldom tip 30. Small numbers usually operating independantly and out in front only serve to draw attention to the fact that most of them look, and act like Yosetime Sam. The plainer, more "issued" or average you look, the easier your burden will be to bear.

CS cavalry tended to use muskets, many didn't have sabres - at a glance they shouldn't stand out from infantry very much. Federal cavalry in sack coats and basic issued gear doesn't stand out much either - and that's the trick.

Where you do want to stand out is in quality. Get quality gear, and know your job. Cavalrymen are soldiers, they marched, drilled, and camped just like the rest of the army. If you don't look and act the soldier - there isn't enough jean-cloth on earth to help you.

Cavalry is a mounted arm. While history is rife with cavalry operating dismounted for varying periods of time - cavalry still implies horses. Whether you intend to ride or not, you should learn about horses and horse equipments. You should learn to ride. Be able to saddle, tack, and pack. You ARE claiming to be a cavalryman, no?

You'll note there's a paticular attitude toward the dismounted among those that do mounted cavalry. When the reenactment is over, the cavalry reenactor is still a horse-owner. There's still a living creature to be seen to and cared for, you can't just toss it in the closet till the next event. Besides the obvious costs, and the not-so-obvious costs - there's a great deal of time and effort involved. You can understand then that to the folks that make that sort of commitment "dismounted" cavalry is like claiming the credit without doing the work.

You might also poke your head in at the CW Cavalry forum.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/cwcavalry/start

I hope there was something there to help you make a considered decision.

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

From a historical standpoint wouldn't a CS dismounted Cav impression be more PEC?
There just doesn't seem to be much worse than a poorly done Cav impression but a good one... leaves a lasting impression.

Actually, I believe the order for CS came to find a horse within 30 days, or be re-assigned to the infantry. Julius Franklin Howell of the 24th VA told the story of most of his unit (mostly de-mounted at the time) being transferred to Ewell's command and marched to Dinwiddy County, VA before being captured at Saylor's Creek. This is just one instance, but further proof of the point.

This is such a sticky area...I wholeheartedly agree that you should do the impression right or not at all. That said...it is VERY hard to find things to do to pull off a dismounted impression correctly. I just have a big problem with pretending the "horse" is "behind the treeline" or "over the hill"...when in fact...its not.

You just open yourself up for too much room for question...when you could put a lot of that effort into a much more easily attainable and correct infantry impression.

The simple fact is...no matter where this argument takes place (forums, in person, etc.) the only people usually arguing for it are those without horses. Then they're stuck constantly defending themselves. I just say, save yourself the trouble.

One last thought...if you do end up doing a dismounted impression...follow the etiquette of a horseman.

Example...You are assigned guard duty or whatever...you would be in full uniform with weapons, but...(photo opps. aside) would you ever wear spurs if not on horseback or without the direct intention of getting on or off of a horse?? Of coarse not, but without some semblence of horse knowledge and etiquette you wouldn't know these things. Its just another point of where being a horseman makes your impression that much better.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Clarification please. John, are you looking at portraying a Cavalry unit that is no longer mounted, such as several infantry units in the AoT were, or are you looking at doing a mounted unit dismounted?

[SCTiger]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

This opens up a great deal of possibilities. We could also have sailors without ships (too expensive). Railroad Engineers without the train and my favorite Ungunned Artillery. You get to wear the artillery uniform without paying for or supporting the gun.

Another solution (possible) could a person rent the horse. Would it be a good way to raise cash for your unit? I guessing that to ride someone else's horse is like petting their dog.

Weird thought but, all of the field artillery units that are without horses (static) are "dismounted" as well. Oh what a barrel of worms that discussion would be!

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

This opens up a great deal of possibilities. We could also have sailors without ships (too expensive). Railroad Engineers without the train and my favorite Ungunned Artillery. You get to wear the artillery uniform without paying for or supporting the gun........yada yada yada

Other than a display of the sort of ridicule he'd have to endure - was there a point to all that?

I think the fellow got some decent points-of-view in a very civil manner and from folks I know have sometimes livid stances on the subject - I see no need to drag it down the the usual "let's poke fun at the dismounted" thread - again.

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

Good news is...there's pretty much zero tolerance on this board so hopefully it won't be an isse.

If there is one part of Greg's statement that can be recognized it's:

I guessing that to ride someone else's horse is like petting their dog.

While a good point, this is usually the way most people get mounted...either first renting or borrowing horses. We leased horses for a couple of years until buying back in the early 90's. There is such a huge difference when you actually do have your own horse, know its quirks, buttons, temperament, etc.

A cavalryman got to know these same things about their horse. When re-mounted, they had to figure these things out all over again. Sometimes, a horse's traits would be purpose for having more than one...such as Grant with Little Jeff, which he rode when he needed a shorter horse with an easier gait than ol' Cincinatti.

Everyone has to start somewhere and I guess as long as they don't show up with your horse in the family Christmas card...then what's the harm in borrowing as a way to start. Besides, having lots of pictures of your horse with others on him is actually a bit flattering. My only concern is having unqualified riders on horseback that can ruin months and even years of training. That's the separation between good horse people and bad or unknowing people.

So, if you're going to do cavalry...you have to go at it with the intention of being mounted and going all the way. Remember...Cavalry traces back to Cheval or "horse". At no time in the history of cavalry, including today, has the nature gotten away from being mobile. Without transportation (even by today's modern standards), you can't be effective and fulfill the role that cavalry plays.

[GBaylor]

Re: Dismounted cavalry equipment

I think that the purpose of this forumis to promote the most acurate portrayal of the common soldier, whatever branch that might be. Sure there were units initially organized as cavalry, but were, in fact, infantry. Those who were organized and fought as cavalry, who became horseless had 30 days to find a remount or were put into infantry service. The only two exceptions (very brief ones at that) were the troopers in front of Petersburg (a battalion) who fought as infantry but within the cavalry corp and P.M.B. Youngs troopers who returned to Georgia to defend Savannah and Augusta dismounted. However, they were eventually remounted and fought with Wheeler through the Carolina's. Additionally, when troopers were without mounts they were often relegated to rear eschelon activities,i.e. provost, clerks, or teamsters. Not front line combat since they would be unable to render their unit any service since they couldn't keep up on foot.

So you can see that the opportunity for doing a correct dismounted role is pretty narrow. I suggest, get a horse (buy, rent or borrow) or do infantry.

John Sweeney