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Interesting Bridle...

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  • #1

    Interesting Bridle...

    Folks, I have no affiliation with this auction what so ever… I just thought it would be easier to discuss it rather than repost all the images. So…is it Civil War or Indian wars vintage? Or possibly a well used re-enactor vintage? Interesting to see a link strap with an officers bridle. Thoughts? TEH

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Cavalry-Officers...item25666951ec
    [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

    Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

    "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Interesting Bridle...

    Zack,

    Paying that kind of money for that would scare me to death!! I am of the initial opinion (after glimpsing photos) that it is the latter (used reenactor vintage).

    Mark
    J. Mark Choate
    7th TN. Cavalry, Co. D.
    "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!"

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Interesting Bridle...

      I dunno... Something about the bit to me looked a bit off, although the port isn't seen on most repros...If it is in fact stamped like he said, that's a mark in its favor. The bridle is pretty neat, and it's definitely old, but again, something seems a bit hinky to me. The buckles look more modern to me, and the leather work doesn't seem to have enough detail and fineness to be original to me. I don't know that I think it's reenactor gear, but I don't know that I'm convinced that it's original.

      Take care,
      Tom Craig
      1st Maine Cavalry
      Tom Craig

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Interesting Bridle...

        What really bothers me about this whole deal are the buckles. I have had several pieces of modern tack with these exact same type of bar buckles and I've seen them used quite a bit on reproduction equipment. My vote at this point is that it's a very expensive ebay fake. I know Ken is a loinery expert, so maybe he can shed some light on the prevelance of this style of buckle.
        Larry Morgan
        Buttermilk Rangers

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Interesting Bridle...

          What really bothers me about this whole deal are the buckles. I have had several pieces of modern tack with these exact same type of bar buckles and I've seen them used quite a bit on reproduction equipment. My vote at this point is that it's a very expensive ebay fake. I know Ken is a loinery expert, so maybe he can shed some light on the prevelance of this style of buckle.
          Larry Morgan
          Buttermilk Rangers

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Interesting Bridle...

            Yeah Larry, I was bothered by the same thing. Certainly is not CW or IW buckles.
            Dennis DeAtley
            North Texas


            I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers.
            [B]William Tecumseh Sherman [/B]

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Interesting Bridle...

              Originally posted by Choatecav View Post
              Zack,

              Paying that kind of money for that would scare me to death!! Mark
              Amen brother. Did anyone else notice that one of the straps had to be cut down to fit through the buckle? I suppose you could call that customized if you wanted to but if I did it to one of my bridles it would be called "(fill in the blank) rigging".
              Jerry Orange
              Horse sweat and powder smoke; two of my favorite smells.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Interesting Bridle...

                Whoa-ho-ho... I wasn't ever considering buying it! I just thought it was something to discuss and we could learn from... Sort of a “what to look for in "arti-fakes" or "e-fakes". I'm not the best at telling fakes unless they are obvious. I think some of our better reenactor gear will pass as originals in a few decades down the road. Some maybe unintentionally sold as such as some of it is that good… I was pretty sure it was somewhere between Indian Wars and 1902, but other than that I was pretty well lost…
                [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

                Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

                "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Interesting Bridle...

                  Zack,
                  Gee whiz, I didn't think it was any big deal for you to plop down $2 Grand on an original bridle. Now the bubble has been burst. :wink_smil

                  But you are correct in the fact that with time, some reenactor items can and will be hard to discern from orginals (except for the most trained eye) and truthfully that is a good thing in that it indicates that many repros are being made better and closer to the originals. Saddles and tack were not being discussed by cavalry reenactors back 20 or 25 years ago to the level of scrutiny that they are discussed now. And that is a good thing!

                  Thanks for showing this.

                  regards,
                  Mark
                  J. Mark Choate
                  7th TN. Cavalry, Co. D.
                  "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!"

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Interesting Bridle...

                    Not a bad idea to post an interesting find on one of the auction sites once and a while to critique. Would be a fun learning tool.
                    Dennis DeAtley
                    North Texas


                    I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers.
                    [B]William Tecumseh Sherman [/B]

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Interesting Bridle...

                      Mark, I'm not so sure about that some of the original (late 80's and early 90's) stuff Burgess made now being 20 plus years old could begin to be faked for original... I mean I have one of his catalogs that actually has the correct type bit bosses in it. If we were to see a cavalry bit today with these we would naturally assume it was an original as no one is reproducing these. Many today don't realize they were ever reproduce... I'd love to have a pair of them, so if anyone has a pair lurking.... Thanks, Z
                      [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                      [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

                      Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

                      "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Interesting Bridle...

                        Folks,
                        I just received a phone call from a "visitor to the site" who was reading this thread and who is extremely knowledgeable on leather work and especially the tanning processes used over the past few centuries. He said that from looking at the photos of the leather and how it appeared to be tanned and the up close photos of the fibers of the leather, that it could have been from the latter third of the 19th century all the way up to the 1920's.

                        Hope that is of help in the evaluation.

                        Oh and by the way, Zack, when I mentioned some of the well made stuff produced today being mistaken for originals, I meant if it were looked at many, many years from now. I did not mean to imply that it would be confused as such currently. Sorry if I was not clear with that point.

                        thanks,
                        Mark
                        J. Mark Choate
                        7th TN. Cavalry, Co. D.
                        "Let history dictate our impressions.......not the other way around!"

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Interesting Bridle...

                          What about them rosettes?
                          John Clinch ~ The Texas Waddi of the "Far Flung Mess"

                          "Fighting the Texans is like walking into a den of wildcats"- Union private
                          "When a Texan fancies he'll take his chances, chances will be taken..."

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Interesting Bridle...

                            I just noticed that the reins have stoppers on them as if the bridle was being used in conjuction with a running martingale (keeps the bit from getting hung up in the martingale rings). Were rein stoppers used during the period...or for that matter running martingales?

                            My gut-level feeling is this is an early 20th Century civilian headstall retrofitted to a possibly original curb bit.

                            Paul McKee
                            Admitted non-expert
                            Paul McKee

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Interesting Bridle...

                              Paul, They were used during the CW, I've seen them in images. Off the top of my head is the image of Gimlet. Of course he has his mane roached too in the picture... Z
                              [B][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][I]Zack Ziarnek[/I][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
                              [email]ill6thcav@yahoo.com[/email]

                              Authentic Campaigner since 1998... Go Hard or Go Home!

                              "Look back at our struggle for Freedom, Trace our present day's strength to its source, And you'll find that this country's pathway to glory, Is strewn with the bones of the horse." Anonymous

                              Comment

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