Muley on Ebay

[IowaYank]

hey Guys,,,,,who has over 7K that they want to give to me so I can buy this???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CIVIL-WAR-C-S-SHIELD-SADDLE-ORIGINAL-CONDITION-CONFEDERATE-SADDLE-ANTIQUE-/290610773125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a9c07c85

[docwood]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Criminal, the condition it's in. Maybe we oughta take up a collection.

[Mark Choate]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Dan,

While I am a huge fan of the Muley's, unless he has some serious provenence that he is not revealing at this time, that price is insane for that saddle.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for sharing the link,
Mark

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Hummmm... it's gone... I didn't even get to see it... Z

[Ken Knopp]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Well, it appears that saddle has been removed from ebay. Perhaps it was de-listed then sold or possibly the seller decided it was not as "right" as he thought. Anyway, its gone now.
I only got a fleeting glimpse of it so cannot do alot of comparisions but I can say it gave me pause. While it was not unlike the muley in my book on page 71, I also note that it had many differences. To me, it seemed to be a post war commercial muley that someone, at some point, tacked a "CS" pommel shield upon it. The shield appeared legit as a Confederate piece but that was about all. However, I did not get a good chance to look at the photos and certainly have never handled it. However, the very same response might be said for the muley in my book which is why (as those of you that have the book will find) I refrained from labeling it as anything more than an "intriguing hybrid saddle" .

This brings up a very good opportunity to provide some clarity on muley saddles. This is my opinion of them: I am convinced that the muley as a civilian pattern, pre-dates the war. Muleys were not known with that moniker before the war- at least NEVER labeled as such. The term "muley" is a modern term that we have tacked on it. As for tree construction....a muley is simply a rounded or pronounced pommel built upon a four piece constructed saddle tree- like that of a Kilgore or McClellan as opposed to a two piece English tree. I have seen one or two early type muleys that were built upon trees that could be called a "Spanish saddle" . Which means they can go back much farther and of course, confuses the issue. The popularized "muley" as we know it today may simply have been a variation of what was later routinely called a Kilgore or Morgan Muley .

It is also my gut instinct that the muley was made by or for Confederate arsenals and issued to troopers however, (BIG qualifer here...) I have nothing concrete (no real evidence) to make this ascertation. It is my belief that due to their simplicity and construction some were made in the west- perhaps as a simple "knock-off" pattern of the Confederate McClellans or as bonafide efforts along with horned saddles by Josiah B. Gathwright and his artisians in 1864- and perhaps others.

After the war they became very popular and were made by many catalog companies and firms. Gathwright and Co., of Louisville Ky under various names, were the first I believe, to popularlize them and manufactured alot of them in huge and wide varieties. He simply called them Morgan saddles (with or without a horn) named after Gen. John H. Morgan- his old commander and so the name stuck. Interestingly, he could not patent that saddle tree (although he patented other saddles). Why? My thought is because he did not own it. By this time (post war) it was not a unique tree pattern- it was too common and well known for a patent to be written on it. Other firms called these saddles Morgans too and often many other names as promoted in their own catalogs. They remained popular in many forms and patterns well after the turn of the century.

Anyway, I wanted to wait and see what you all thought about this ebay saddle before I responded but since its gone now, I thought I might add my speculative "two cents"......although it is hardly worth even that.

For more informationon commercial saddles, check out my web site for the article...."commercial and Catalog Saddles of the 19th and early 20th Century"

http://confederatesaddles.com/cswp/?p=242

Ken R Knopp

https://www.confederatesaddles.com

[Mark Choate]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Ken,

That was a wonderful synopsis on the "Morgan Muley" saddle. I never tire of learning of the evolution of the civilian saddles. To me, it is even more fascinating than that of the military saddle.

I do wonder if it sold for that ridiculous amount or if it was pulled for some other reason?

regards,
Mark

[docwood]

Re: Muley on Ebay

I saved the ad. If you like, I can upload the pictures here, or I can e-mail the file to anyone who requests it.

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Virginia, If you don't mind shoot me the pictures. I didn't get to see the saddle. You can use either address... Thanks, Zack

ziarnek!frontier.com
ill6thcav@yahoo.com

[Old-South]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Zack
You can upload them on Equitatus for all the cav guys to look at if you want.

[MuleyGil]

Re: Muley on Ebay

WHAT????? I've been sold????? I hope they got a good price for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[docwood]

Re: Muley on Ebay

Unfortunately, guys, I clipped the whole page to OneNote. Long story short, all's I have left is the main photo--the detail shots are now only 1/3" icons! Lesson learned: Next time I'll open and save each file separately.

Equally unfortunately, I do not have the permission required to post attachments. Perhaps Zack could upload it for you: I've e-mailed the file to him.